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Thread: This one has been bothering me for years

  1. #1


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    This one has been bothering me for years

    I've run a sim on a specific game about 30x times. 400 million rounds. Why am I seeing different results?

    CVdata v5 shows a different starting advantage then every other calculator I've used. Including the Qfit online calculator. Why are the results so different?

    6D. H17. ENHC (Dealer BJ takes all). Double any two cards. DAS. RSA. Rs3 ( 4 hands total). Full ES. (Yes, full ES)

    CVdata shows player starting disadvantage = -0.31. Qfit online calculator shows player starting advantage = +0.085.

    Qfit calculator here: https://www.qfit.com/calc.htm

    Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    -Fringe

  2. #2


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    This ruleset has a very modest player advantage off the top.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fringe View Post
    I've run a sim on a specific game about 30x times. 400 million rounds. Why am I seeing different results?

    CVdata v5 shows a different starting advantage then every other calculator I've used. Including the Qfit online calculator. Why are the results so different?

    6D. H17. ENHC (Dealer BJ takes all). Double any two cards. DAS. RSA. Rs3 ( 4 hands total). Full ES. (Yes, full ES)

    CVdata shows player starting disadvantage = -0.31. Qfit online calculator shows player starting advantage = +0.085.

    Qfit calculator here: https://www.qfit.com/calc.htm

    Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    -Fringe


    Player have advantage off the top, player starting advantage(per hand) = +0.051%

  4. #4
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    You would need to add the ES strategy. This is not included in CV as it's so rare these days.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    You would need to add the ES strategy. This is not included in CV as it's so rare these days.
    Well that explains a lot.

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    6 decks base(S17,DA2,NDAS,SPA1,SPL3,NS) = -0.55%; H17=0.215%; ENHC = -0.11%; DAS =+0.142%; RA=+0.069%; ES (with H17) = +0.72%; RS3 = included in the base game; Total = +0.056%; That means if you flat bet $100 at 100 rounds/hr, you win $5.60 It's not the way I want my post to look like, but it seems even when I split it in many rows, everything come back together when posting.
    G Man

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    You can't actually add rule effects as they affect each other.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Well.... for basic strategy edge, this is what we've been doing forever... No?
    G Man

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Well, many people have. But, it's never been correct.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Can we at least say it's a very good approximation? I did it for years and never saw any "important" differences compared to sim results.
    G Man

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    There are two common mistakes in estimating advantage. The first is this interrelationship. The second is that people think they are estimating the starting advantage for counters. Of course, even if you take into account the interrelationships, you are still not accurately calculating the starting advantage for a counter, even if the counter was flat betting. As for how good the approximation -- all depends on the accuracy desired.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    You can't actually add rule effects as they affect each other.

    The affect is negligible....no ?

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    You would need to add the ES strategy. This is not included in CV as it's so rare these days.
    Ah Norm. I’ve always included “Early surrender against ten, & early surrender against Ace” options in the cv sim. But you’re saying check-marking those two won’t do the trick. Thank you for your input.

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