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Thread: Harrahs Cherokee cheating

  1. #66


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    Jesus, Smallcap no offense but you seem on tilt. What has happened in your life that is so terrible?

  2. #67


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Relapse? Again the need to make it about me?
    Because you frequently post stupid shit.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  3. #68


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    Quote Originally Posted by RCJH View Post
    Zee, most games can be beaten. I'm not going to explain the carney games to you; you'll have to figure those out on your own. But have you ever heard of wheel bias on roulette?

    Its a big AP world out there...
    Yeah, I've heard of a bias roulette wheel. I read about it in one of my blackjack books, that was published about 40 years ago. My problem is I'm living in the world today, and I think you are too. Do you really think there are a bunch of those bias roulette wheels still out there?

    I agree with Zee on this one. Casinos have cleaned up their games. There aren't a lot of sloppy dealers out there exposing their hole cards, and most casinos don't get their roulette wheels at garage sales.

    Yes, in theory, every game can be beat. But the reality is, most games are well protected and can't be beat.

  4. #69


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard of a bias roulette wheel. I read about it in one of my blackjack books, that was published about 40 years ago. My problem is I'm living in the world today, and I think you are too. Do you really think there are a bunch of those bias roulette wheels still out there?

    I agree with Zee on this one. Casinos have cleaned up their games. There aren't a lot of sloppy dealers out there exposing their hole cards, and most casinos don't get their roulette wheels at garage sales.

    Yes, in theory, every game can be beat. But the reality is, most games are well protected and can't be beat.
    You obviously don't travel enough.

  5. #70


    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I just want to point out the obvious:
    I grab her hand and forcifly pull her forward and say look bitch, you going to need to kill me before you rob me for 80k.
    But he didn't get the 80k. And apparently is still alive.

    So, he's a fibber.

  6. #71


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard of a bias roulette wheel. I read about it in one of my blackjack books, that was published about 40 years ago. My problem is I'm living in the world today, and I think you are too. Do you really think there are a bunch of those bias roulette wheels still out there?
    Yeah, I think the number of biased wheels that can swing the advantage to the player is not what it once was in the past.

    Along with the numbers being displayed on the digital tote board, these numbers are recorded and databased. Reports can be very easily generated to check the frequency of numbers/sections.

    This could also create collusion opportunities between an employee with access to this information and a Player.
    The information that can be created from data from say the last 100,000 spins is enormous.

    I'm not saying you can't find a biased wheel, however its definitely not what it once was.
    Last edited by BankerCA; 04-25-2019 at 01:42 PM.

  7. #72


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    Excellent point BankerCA. I hadn’t even thought about that. Today Casinos have electronic records of the past hits on their roulette wheels so they would be the first to spot a biased roulette wheel. I expect the roulette wheels also go through extensive testing before they are even sent to a casino.

    If anybody hears of a casino still buying their roulette wheels at garage sales, please let me know. This sounds like a casino I might want to play at. Lol

  8. #73


    1 out of 3 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Which was it?
    I grab her hand and forcifly pull her forward
    or
    I have my way to gently touch
    Because forcibly (that's the correct spelling) and gently are each other's antonyms.

  9. #74


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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    Because you frequently post stupid shit.

    The guy wrote "I have yet to see a table game that can't be beat". He did not mention that to beat the table requires a sloppy dealer or promotion. It's like someone saying "I have yet to see a bank that can't be robbed" or "I have yet to see a passenger plane that can't be hijacked".

    Stop kissing up, my post did not have an invitation to you to respond. Just address the OP.

  10. #75


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    The guy wrote "I have yet to see a table game that can't be beat". He did not mention that to beat the table requires a sloppy dealer or promotion. It's like someone saying "I have yet to see a bank that can't be robbed" or "I have yet to see a passenger plane that can't be hijacked".

    Stop kissing up, my post did not have an invitation to you to respond. Just address the OP.
    Every game can be beaten. It goes without saying that you need something "extra" to make the game +EV. In blackjack, it's the fact there's an effect of removal and several rounds are dealt before a shuffle. I mean, it's pretty damn obvious -- you're not going to be able to beat a -EV game if there isn't a way to make it +EV.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  11. #76
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    A few disparate points:

    -Wheels are rotated in major casinos nightly, which affects any imbalance.
    -A tiny imbalance can cause a gain in advantage.
    -Not all casinos are large and use great equipment or know what they are doing, particularly in less traveled areas of the world.
    -Based wheels are probably not the best method of beating roulette anyhow.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  12. #77


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    A few disparate points:

    -Wheels are rotated in major casinos nightly, which affects any imbalance.
    -A tiny imbalance can cause a gain in advantage.
    -Not all casinos are large and use great equipment or know what they are doing, particularly in less traveled areas of the world.
    -Based wheels are probably not the best method of beating roulette anyhow.
    I don't want to spell out any current AP opportunity, but rather make the point that there are MANY AP opportunities outside of blackjack. There are unprotected games everywhere, but to be clear, not every game is unprotected. There are exploitable promotions. And sometimes, you find a unicorn.

    I'll share one example, because it is long over. A certain casino was adding craps. To train the dealers, they offered promo chips to patrons. You could also buy promo chips. (I suspect it was a way to circumvent the regulations at that time). The promo chips could be redeemed for free play, or then used on other games.

    The new dealers were mistakenly paying hop bets. They didn't remove them after a single roll; rather, they stayed until they won. Hop bets generally pay 15:1, but it's for the next roll only. This went on for several days.

    If you're only a card counter, and never venture outside of the pit, you could be missing out on huge EV right under your nose.

  13. #78


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    No I am not aware of this happening up to this point. Upon first back off, the casino notifies the gaming commission who will hold a hearing an notify you by mail. If you do not show up you lost the chance and are now considered blacklisted. They will list you on their website and possibly in the newspapers if they can not reach you first. All your real problems will then start if you then return to play blackjack again.
    BoSox, I have been looking into this since you posted. Through approximately seventeen degrees of separation I was able to speak (informally and discretely) with someone at the gaming commission about this. Here's the skinny:
    The Gaming Commission is not notified nor do they care about back-offs, 86s, and trespass orders. Your chips will not be forfeited if you are subject to any of these administrative casino actions. There are very player-friendly gaming laws in the Commonwealth and failure to convert chips back to currency will result in a commission investigation, with the likely outcome of the casino being fined. The CMR reads, in pertinent part:
    Each gaming licensee shall redeem promptly its own genuine gaming chips and gaming plaques presented by a patron in person, except when the gaming chips or plaques were obtained or being used unlawfully.
    The Gaming Commission does maintain an "Exclusion List" which is public. You can see it here:
    https://massgaming.com/regulations/exclusion-list/

    The CMR (administrative law) that regulates the exclusion list can be found here:
    https://www.mass.gov/files/documents.../205cmr152.pdf
    The criteria to get on the list is very narrow and it does require a hearing, public notice, etc., as you described in your post.
    The criteria to get on the list:
    (a)the individual has been convicted of a criminal offense under the laws of any state or the United States that is punishable by more than six months in a state prison, a house of correction or any comparable incarceration, a crime of moral turpitude or a violation of the gaming laws of any state;
    (b)the individual has violated or conspired to violate M.G.L. c. 23K or any laws related to gaming;
    (c)the individual has a notorious or unsavory reputation which would adversely affect public confidence and trust that the gaming industry is free from criminal or corruptive elements;
    (d)the individual is an associate of an individual who falls into a category identified in205 CMR 152.03(1)(a) through (c);
    (e)the individual's presence in a gaming establishment presents the potential of injurious threat to the interests of the Commonwealth in a gaming establishment.
    Regarding (e): A decrease in taxable income of the casino caused by an AP winning more does not qualify as an "injury" to the Commonwealth.

    Violating this exclusion does result in forfeiture of all chips in your possession, even if they have not been played or won.

    There is a provision for individuals to place themselves on the list. If they volunteer to do such, their name is not put on the public list and they select how long they remain on the list for, up to lifetime (requires a shorter time frame to be served first). The purpose of this is for gambling addicts to take additional steps to keep themselves out of casinos.

    Additionally, MGM Springfield is a database participant though which database is not known by my source, nor does the gaming commission have any need to know.

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