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Thread: Hi-lo for team play

  1. #1


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    Hi-lo for team play

    I understand Hi-lo is the easiest and one of most powerful systems for being a level 1 count but I'm willing to put in more effort to learn maybe Zen or Ho2. I'm going to be playing with a spotter and wonging aggressively. My Br is $10,000 and we are looking at $5 tables but will occasionally play $10 if we must. 6 deck games are the priority with the standard rules in vegas(h17,LS,Dsa,4.5-5 dealt,ds). I'm looking at wonging in at TC+2-3 and using a 1-40 spread. Obviously the spotter will be playing minimum while I come in with the max bet or near max because of the TC. What advice I wanted from everyone is if zen or Ho2 will be more worth it since I'm already putting in this much effort to train another person to spot for me and built up my bankroll to a reasonable starting size. The spotter is very competent so it wont be an issue with him being able to keep an accurate count. Is adding an ASC going to be much more beneficial or should I just go for a more complex system?

  2. #2


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    Spotter / BP play rely on strong betting correlation. Just use HiLo. It has an excellent BC, and transferring the count is easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCJH View Post
    Just use HiLo
    Agree

  4. #4


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    The endless debate of count systems also extends to team play.

    The strongest argument for team play, under most circumstances, revolves around hi lo. It’s popularty is virtually universal. Good literature and teaching tools are abundant. It’s simple to use and easy to learn. Signals between team mates are standardized on 1 count system.

    Not to say that a team can’t be successful with individuals using a mix of counts, however, useful info can be lost in translation - and of course, there’s nothing to say that a hi lo team can’t intro their own tweaks.

  5. #5


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    Yeah the BC with hi lo is good but I was concerned with the PE and how it might impact the decisions being made at higher counts with max bet out. What does everyone think of a 1-40 spread? I haven't bought cvcx or any of the verite software but I'm assuming a 1-40 spread even with a spotter has a pretty big ROR. Also what is a tolerable ROR with $10,000 and wonging 6 deck?

  6. #6


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    The most underrated aspect of learning Hilo is the near universal language. I'm happy with my choice in count but I've been limited in the rare occasions I could have had an impromptu team play.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by spitz View Post
    I understand Hi-lo is the easiest and one of most powerful systems for being a level 1 count but I'm willing to put in more effort to learn maybe Zen or Ho2. I'm going to be playing with a spotter and wonging aggressively. My Br is $10,000 and we are looking at $5 tables but will occasionally play $10 if we must. 6 deck games are the priority with the standard rules in vegas(h17,LS,Dsa,4.5-5 dealt,ds). I'm looking at wonging in at TC+2-3 and using a 1-40 spread. Obviously the spotter will be playing minimum while I come in with the max bet or near max because of the TC. What advice I wanted from everyone is if zen or Ho2 will be more worth it since I'm already putting in this much effort to train another person to spot for me and built up my bankroll to a reasonable starting size. The spotter is very competent so it wont be an issue with him being able to keep an accurate count. Is adding an ASC going to be much more beneficial or should I just go for a more complex system?

    If you think that a 10k is a reasonable starting size bank for using a 1 to 40 spread, and occasionally playing at $10 tables, please get that idea out of your head quickly. If you bet $400 on one hand you are really just gambling at that point. Stick to the $5 tables. Even at these tables you only have 50 max bets, plus you have to make up for the small loses that the spotter takes for flat betting plus his/her pay. Then you also say you will wong in at TC of 2 and 3 with a max bet or near max bet based on the TC. I think you should stop thinking about using other counts for now and re-evaluate your game plan. If you stay with the same game plan and if it fails don't blame the spotter.
    Last edited by BoSox; 04-03-2019 at 03:02 PM.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    If you think that a 10k is a reasonable starting size bank for using a 1 to 40 spread, and occasionally playing at $10 tables, please get that idea out of your head quickly. If you bet $400 on one hand you are really just gambling at that point. Stick to the $5 tables. Even at these tables you only have 50 max bets, plus you have to make up for the small loses that the spotter takes for flat betting plus his/her pay. Then you also say you will wong in at TC of 2 and 3 with a max bet or near max bet based on the TC. I think you should stop thinking about using other counts for now and re-evaluate your game plan. If you stay with the same game plan and if it fails don't blame the spotter.
    If it were a $10 table the spread would go down to 1-20 but a $5 table would be the 1-40. I always had the impression that the higher you can spread the better since there's a spotter spreading 1-40 is much easier with heat than if you were to play all. I just want maximum return for our time playing with a reasonable ROR. Seems like 10k is no where near enough for a 1-40 spread since its only 50 max bets. Maybe a 1-18 spread is a bit more reasonable? Again, I haven't purchased cvcx or any of the verite software so I can't get my exact ROR. I read that with most 6 decks, the most common and optimal spread would be 1-16? Is going above that spread being greedy and risking too much? Don't get me wrong, I do want to play at a safe advantage but I also want to push the boundaries as much as it can go.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by spitz View Post
    If it were a $10 table the spread would go down to 1-20 but a $5 table would be the 1-40. I always had the impression that the higher you can spread the better since there's a spotter spreading 1-40 is much easier with heat than if you were to play all. I just want maximum return for our time playing with a reasonable ROR. Seems like 10k is no where near enough for a 1-40 spread since its only 50 max bets. Maybe a 1-18 spread is a bit more reasonable? Again, I haven't purchased cvcx or any of the verite software so I can't get my exact ROR. I read that with most 6 decks, the most common and optimal spread would be 1-16? Is going above that spread being greedy and risking too much? Don't get me wrong, I do want to play at a safe advantage but I also want to push the boundaries as much as it can go.
    You will learn it is not about everything you would like to do, but what the casino tolerates and the quicker you learn that the better. Every casino is different from what is allowed and what is not, and you will find huge differences. Learning to understand what is taking place in the pits while you are playing is a skill in itself. Blending in with your wagers, showing a little emotion at times, ask advice, at times appear like you are guessing on how to play the hand. Always remember this one, on days that you are getting hammered do not think for one instant that gives you a free ride to do as you please it does NOT.

    When do you wong out? I hope your spotter infrequently wongs out when he spots a fresh shuffle taking place. Even though your own spread may be 40 times your spotter you should refer to only your own actual spread and it should be only something like 1 to 4 as it will look much more comfortable to the eye upstairs. Again don't try to execute your plan if it won't be allowed. I like the 1 to 16 spread for your 10K much better. Do you ever play two hands at times?

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by spitz View Post
    I'm looking at wonging in at TC+2-3 and using a 1-40 spread.
    you don't have to use a defined spread just bet with the advantage according to "Kelly ". say with 10k then bet $100 at tc4( more common) , if it is a better game then you may be able to put $100 at tc5 .

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