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Thread: Money refunded, membership cancelled...

  1. #14


    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Yes, well said RCJH!

    Many, including me, have been telling Zee to refrain from giving others advice as he is doing them a disservice. Colin just confirmed that by his actions.

    Doing something half assed and failing does not make you an expert.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  2. #15


    1 out of 5 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with Stealth and RCJH on this one. I don’t see how Zee has failed if he’s done what he says, which is make $70,000 (I think I got that number right) and survived at his local casinos for about 4 years before he got the boot. And he’s still getting excellent comps from casinos when he travels, even after he’s in some data bases, proving his point that being in a data base isn’t that big of a deal. Most part time recreational counters (which is all Zee has ever claimed he is) would call this being a huge success.

    i was on BJA for a while and understand where Zee is coming from. BJA is selling something that is much more harmful than anything the casinos are selling. BJA is selling an illusion, basically the dream of riches without much effort, and a free lifestyle without a boss. It preys on the young and naive. The reality is it’s a hard lifestyle, with a lot of travel which makes it hard to establish normal relationships.

    Ive personally met a BJA member who flew out to my area. I could spot he was a BJA protege immediately by his aggressive play without cover. He got fliyered and 86d quite a bit. We stayed in touch texting, even though we lived in different parts of the country. Last I heard from him he went bust, losing about $30,000. He’s now working, trying to build up another bankroll.

    I know my one example is not representative of every BJA member. But I expect BJA has made more money for the casinos than it’s taken from the casinos, and it’s not because they’re system doesn’t work. Most young counters don’t have the bankroll or discipline to make it a full time career. And it’s not a normal way to live anyway, even if they could.

    Also, I wonder what the resume of these young APs look like that want to get back to a normal job. Does it say they spent several years driving around the country counting cards? I wonder how many companies value this skill set?

    And the advice Zee is giving is not that different from Stanford Wong. Wong said it should be done part time, and people should spend full time on something that adds more value. I think it makes sense doing it part time or as something in retirement. But does anybody really think this is a good career for a young kid? I hope not.

    But I understand Colin’s position too since his business model is to sell the dream of being a pro. The last thing he needs is someone like Zee pointing out reality. It’s ironic that Colin is very critical of casinos backing counters off and yet he rountinuely backs people off his site who don’t drink the cool-aide.

  3. #16


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    For the record, there’s only been 2 people who’ve ever been backed off from BJA...

  4. #17


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    I don't know what he posted on BJA, but if it resembles his posts on here, then it makes sense to ban him.

    I also don't know how hard Colin & co are pushing people to go pro, but I have a feeling if they're doing that, it's based on first having a solid understanding of the game, bankroll, risk, etc.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  5. #18


    1 out of 3 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryemo View Post
    For the record, there’s only been 2 people who’ve ever been backed off from BJA...
    That doesn’t change the bigger point. Colin backs people off who he thinks hurts his business, and that’s his right since it’s his site. He does not back them off because they violate any rule. It’s because they don’t fit the “culture” he’s trying to foster. Again, that’s his right. It’s his site.

    Casinos back APs for the same reason. They hurt their business. To me this makes sense, and yes I’ve been backed off and 86’d a couple times. But I will never criticize them for doing this.

    My pet peeve is being inconsistent. Colin should quite criticizing casinos for doing what he does.

  6. #19


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    My opinion of Colin just went down another notch after I read about Zee's ban at BJA. My opinion of him wasn't very high to start with as I always thought that $3,000 for a blackjack course was a total rip off. However, I can see Colin's point of view too if he thought Zee was hurting business.

    If I remember reading Blackjack Attack correctly from many years ago, I thought Don S also advised against becoming a full time pro.

    Anyway, I was very impressed with RCJH's post in this thread.
    Last edited by Midwest Player; 03-23-2019 at 10:45 PM.

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryemo View Post
    For the record, there’s only been 2 people who’ve ever been backed off from BJA...
    Wow. Only 2? What did the other guy do?

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by RCJH View Post
    Wow. Only 2? What did the other guy do?
    He went on Beast Mode. ))
    (Only joking)

    Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by RCJH View Post
    Wow. Only 2? What did the other guy do?
    It was me. I did not violate any rule. I got backed off for promoting tipping and sometimes defending casinos when APs made their usual stupid uniformed comments about casinos. For a group that claims to live by the “golden rule”, they are strongly against tipping their fellowman for any reason. Say anything supporting tipping and they come down on you hard. Before I got backed off, I got a personal email from Colon asking me to stop bringing up tipping.

    In their view, tipping hurts EV, and EV is everything, taking on almost a “god like” status Thou shalt NOT tip or play with any cover so you won’t hurt the almighty EV could be their slogan.

    Diversity of opinion is also discouraged on that site, and I understand why. They are trying to get people to sign up for their bootcamp.

    Btw, I never said anything against their expensive bootcamp since I respected this is how BJA makes their money. And they strongly push people to the bootcamp. When I signed up, early on I got a personal email from Colin recommending I should attend his bootcamp. The other BJA member I met (who lost his bankroll) also got a personal email from Colin encouraging him to attend the bootcamp. This was always our inside joke...the $2,000 bootcamp. We thought $2,000 for a bootcamp was outrageous. Little did we know that was a bargain at that time, and a year later the price would increase to $3,000. It’s called supply vs demand. There most be a big demand for this type of thing. That’s why I’m thinking of getting into the Bootcamp for AP gig.

    I can post my email from Colin on why he backed me off if people are interested. It was a polite email like Zee’s, basically saying I didn’t fit the “culture” he was trying to foster. While I was on BJA site, I toned down my comments and had quite a few supporters. One guy liked how I respectfully presented my point. He said it was good to be able to have someone that could see both sides. Obviously, others didn’t share his view.

    I actually saw this as a postive EV move by me, since I had forget to cancel my membership before my automatic bill play kicked in. I could see this site wasn’t for me and it was expensive, but I didn’t get around to cancelling it. So in the end it worked out good for both sides.

  10. #23
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    I can post my email from Colin on why he backed me off if people are interested.
    That would be a copyright violation.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    That would be a copyright violation.
    Really? While it's a violation of "netiquette," doesn't the receiver of an email have ownership and the right to republish? In any case, it's unenforceable since there would be no recoverable damages.

  12. #25
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Absolutely not - no more than if I emailed you a copy of my book. If you write something on a napkin in a bar and hand it to another person, the act of handing it is called publishing and it is automatically copyrighted, as per the Copyright Act of 1978. The author always retains all rights of ownership unless explicitly released. And, it is enforceable. It's also a violation of this forum's terms.

    BTW, posts are also copyrighted.
    Last edited by Norm; 03-24-2019 at 06:53 AM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    <snip>BTW, posts are also copyrighted.
    Norm,

    Who owns the copyright on posts: the poster or you (as the site owner)? Does the answer depend on whether or not the poster was compensated for the post, as for example, a bj21 "Post of the Month"?

    Dog Hand

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