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Thread: Money refunded, membership cancelled...

  1. #1


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    Money refunded, membership cancelled...

    I had become a member of BJA. I found the forum full of enthusiastic young card counters (some old but new) who had joined BJA, many attended and were planning to attend the boot camps and such.

    I started expressing my view and telling the posters who posted that perhaps they were too enthusiastic, to look at card counting as a way to stay even, perhaps earn a bit and supplement their income. I told some young newbie winners that variance will eventually bring them down to earth. I told others that it's a mistake to seek it as a full time career, that those who had made it a career were very talented people more akin to pro ball players. This went on for about 8-10 months with me responding to a posting about once a week. Unlike here, I never started a thread (except once).

    All I was against was the idea that young people should consider it a full time career, that the odds were not good. Some thought I was being disrespectful to Colin (I was not) and I pointed out that good as he well may be, that one cannot get the best coach in the world and be very successful. I said its similar to someone looking at Golf pros and thinking that with the right coach they may become one but the reality is that many will end up failing, still others may end up becoming assistant coaches at high schools, some may get gigs as folf pros at local golf clubs and such.

    I think I offended Colin or might be he thought I was hurting his business. In any case, here is the email I received from Colin followed by a refund of my membership.

    "I've decided to refund and cancel your Membership. I've come to the conclusion that you are not a good fit for the values, culture, and general expectations of respect and goodwill that I want to foster at BJA.

    I'm sure you're not going to see it that way, but at the end of the day there are just too many things in my opinion that are disrespectful to the Pros at BJA.


    Best regards moving forward."

    And my reply..

    "I understand.



    Perhaps poorly but the point I was making, always, was that learning from you and the services you provide can be immensely helpful to most people simply because they can help a person get comps, at minimum stay even and perhaps win some money. I simply objected to people assuming they can be full time pros giving up other careers.


    In any case, so be it.


    Warm regards,"

    In any case, it is what it is.

  2. #2


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    I've seen a number of recent BJA disciples in the casinos lately. Seems Colin found a better business model than running a team.

    P.S. You can't blame me for this latest forum back-off, Zee

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    I've seen a number of recent BJA disciples in the casinos lately. Seems Colin found a better business model than running a team.

    P.S. You can't blame me for this latest forum back-off, Zee
    Naah, but I have grown. Now that I know I dont have it in me, I have more of an appreciation for all of you full timers.

    I would just curb some folks enthusiasm on BJA, people who attended a boot camp, had a bit of success and now are ready to or have already quit their jobs or school.

  4. #4


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    Telling people that they shouldn't go full time makes you out to be the bad guy. That's the same as telling people to give up on there dreams. Yes, going full time is probably not the best idea and everyone who does should know what they're getting into. “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.” - Plato


  5. #5


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    You used his platform to advertise against him and try to convince people to not purchase his product. You can't actually be surprised......

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by spitz View Post
    Telling people that they shouldn't go full time makes you out to be the bad guy. That's the same as telling people to give up on there dreams. Yes, going full time is probably not the best idea and everyone who does should know what they're getting into. “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.” - Plato
    That was the issue. I kept telling people what they are getting into. Folks have spent hours and hours perfecting the training offered without ever entering a casino, others have attended boot camps and had some minor success playing red chips and extrapolating they can do the same with Green or Black chips just as easily and I simply could not help pointing out its not as easy as they think. Some have won a few hundred in their local casinos and think they found a gold mine and did not want to hear me say that its just a matter of time before they lose their home games and the costs of being on the road.

    Its just so bizarre the enthusiasm the boot camps and his videos generate. I was never saying its a bad thing, that Colin and his site will likely provide some success and they can play a winning game but to think of making a career and deciding to quit jobs or college after a few months?

    Anyway, Colin did not like it so its ended.

  7. #7


    5 out of 5 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    The problem, Zee, is that you have it backwards. What is right for you MUST be right for everyone.

    Just because you don't want to do this full time, doesn't mean that others shouldn't. You like the "casino experience". You play rated. And you assume your truth should be the world's truth.

    I'm not part of BJA, but those I know who went through that program are skilled and competent, and frankly good people. Counting cards full time as a pro isn't some fantasy job. Real people do it, and do it successfully. I could do it, and my long term plan is to have it as a retirement job. I just enjoy the 9-5 too much. But when you "give advice", you do it like you're the Pope speaking ex cathedra-- you are correct, 100% all the time. And frankly, it gets tedious.

    How many conversations on THIS forum have we had about playing rated? Read your responses. You go on and on about how good it is, and the comps, etc. Then a week later you're lamenting about having to travel. But not once will you stop and consider that maybe, just maybe had you FOLLOWED some advice you'd be in a better place.

    Colin and BJA players do it their way, and that is okay. Maybe if you respected others' opinions, they would respect yours. In the end, you went into HIS house, and criticized his methods, his students, and his occupation. To him, playing blackjack is a business. For you, it's "recreation". That's also okay, but it's pretty darn ballsy of you to force that on others.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by RCJH View Post
    The problem, Zee, is that you have it backwards. What is right for you MUST be right for everyone.

    Just because you don't want to do this full time, doesn't mean that others shouldn't. You like the "casino experience". You play rated. And you assume your truth should be the world's truth.

    I'm not part of BJA, but those I know who went through that program are skilled and competent, and frankly good people. Counting cards full time as a pro isn't some fantasy job. Real people do it, and do it successfully. I could do it, and my long term plan is to have it as a retirement job. I just enjoy the 9-5 too much. But when you "give advice", you do it like you're the Pope speaking ex cathedra-- you are correct, 100% all the time. And frankly, it gets tedious.

    How many conversations on THIS forum have we had about playing rated? Read your responses. You go on and on about how good it is, and the comps, etc. Then a week later you're lamenting about having to travel. But not once will you stop and consider that maybe, just maybe had you FOLLOWED some advice you'd be in a better place.

    Colin and BJA players do it their way, and that is okay. Maybe if you respected others' opinions, they would respect yours. In the end, you went into HIS house, and criticized his methods, his students, and his occupation. To him, playing blackjack is a business. For you, it's "recreation". That's also okay, but it's pretty darn ballsy of you to force that on others.
    Nice post with some good advice everyone could take on board no matter how experienced...after all, there's more than one way to cook an egg

  9. #9


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    Very well said, RCJH.

  10. #10


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    I have to say, very well said too :-)
    G Man

  11. #11


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    They just don't want a Debbie Downer in their club.

  12. #12


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    If I made a forum to promote my brand of protein shake, then I would kick you out if you bad mouthed body building too often.
    If I made a forum to discuss protein shake because I enjoy body building as my hobby, then I also would kick you out.
    If I made a forum to discuss protein shake and declared that I welcome all constructive message to human health / well being, then I have to tolerate your negative view on body building.
    Last edited by BPrenewable; 03-22-2019 at 09:45 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
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    I don't know if or how much discussion on variance goes on at BJA, but if that subject is swept under the rug a lot of starry eyed dreamers are going to be disappointed when reality rears it's ugly head. Counting doesn't guarantee winning, it simply gives a skilled player a chance at success.

    It's evident that the casinos are tightening their games, and no doubt harder to win than it was 15 years ago. 40 years ago when Vegas and AC had the only legal casinos in the USA I started my blackjack career. I sure would like to go back in time to those candy stores with the skill set I have now...

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BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.