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Thread: Bankroll - withdrawal vs. reinvestment

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    Bankroll - withdrawal vs. reinvestment

    What do you do with your winnings that are in excess of your bankroll?

    Meaning: you've set aside $50,000 as your bankroll. You play a store and earn $2,000.
    What do you do with the winnings? Do you increase your bankroll or do you keep it for whatever it is you spend your money on? And what are your goals in playing?

    I understand this is highly subjective, but that's what I'm looking for... ideas.

    Right now I'm essentially playing with no bankroll. I've got $500 disposable every two weeks. I play with that expecting to ruin. I've ruined in less than an hour, or had +1,800 weekends. I take my winnings out to pay down my high-interest debt, which was the purpose of learning to count. Now that I'm almost done with that, I'm figuring out what sort of bankroll management I'd like to use.

    I'm looking for ideas, so I thank you in advance.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMass View Post
    What do you do with your winnings that are in excess of your bankroll?

    Meaning: you've set aside $50,000 as your bankroll. You play a store and earn $2,000.
    What do you do with the winnings? Do you increase your bankroll or do you keep it for whatever it is you spend your money on? And what are your goals in playing?

    I understand this is highly subjective, but that's what I'm looking for... ideas.

    Right now I'm essentially playing with no bankroll. I've got $500 disposable every two weeks. I play with that expecting to ruin. I've ruined in less than an hour, or had +1,800 weekends. I take my winnings out to pay down my high-interest debt, which was the purpose of learning to count. Now that I'm almost done with that, I'm figuring out what sort of bankroll management I'd like to use.

    I'm looking for ideas, so I thank you in advance.

    Unsurprisingly, no one is gonna have any tangible ideas for you and your non-existent bankroll.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by GMass View Post
    What do you do with your winnings that are in excess of your bankroll?

    Meaning: you've set aside $50,000 as your bankroll. You play a store and earn $2,000.
    What do you do with the winnings? Do you increase your bankroll or do you keep it for whatever it is you spend your money on? And what are your goals in playing?

    I understand this is highly subjective, but that's what I'm looking for... ideas.

    Right now I'm essentially playing with no bankroll. I've got $500 disposable every two weeks. I play with that expecting to ruin. I've ruined in less than an hour, or had +1,800 weekends. I take my winnings out to pay down my high-interest debt, which was the purpose of learning to count. Now that I'm almost done with that, I'm figuring out what sort of bankroll management I'd like to use.

    I'm looking for ideas, so I thank you in advance.
    I would *HIGHLY* recommend you build a bankroll of around 800-1000 units before you go counting 21.

    The *very first* order is to pay down much of your principle on your loan before ever thinking about counting.

    Your 500 dollars per pay period is insufficient for any counting endeavour!

    If you are going out ""expecting to ruin", you are not counting...you're gambling. Plain and simple! This is a warning.

    Seriously, pay down your debt until it is nothing you can sneeze at, build a bankroll of 800-1000 units, learn to properly count, and take to it part time.

    This is what you *should* be asking. Please take my advice! I know that it seems counting is the way out. It's not. Take your time.

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    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    I agree, you shouldn't be counting right now. Pay off your debt first.

    Regarding your other question where you suddenly have a 50k BR and no debt.. Most people seem to reinvest all their winnings into their BR and continually increase or decrease their stakes depending on the size of their current BR. I don't quite do this. My stakes stay the same. I don't bet more just because I have more. I'm happy with my EV and I just keep plodding along. I live off my winnings and invest what's left over.

    Now if you win 2k and immediately spend it or whatever, what are you going to do when you lose 2k the next day? Are you going to take the 2k you won and put it back in your BR, or will you be working out of a 48k BR? If you decide to work out of a 48k BR and continue to spend every winning session you will quickly have no BR. The swings are all over the place and sometimes you will have horrible runs that last for months and they will make you question everything.



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    Last edited by Bubbles; 03-17-2019 at 06:31 PM.

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    What I have done is have a starting bankroll that resulted in less than 3% ROR. When I doubled that bank, I started thinking about pulling some out. A couple of years ago I bought a car and left enough in my bankroll to play with less than 1% ROR. I have few expenses and no mortgage or loans to pay at all, plus I get annuities and other income. However, blackjack is only a part of my AP efforts - I also play poker and bet on sports.

    The advice by others to pay off any debts you have and reduce your expenses is good. Heed that advice and consider expanding your AP arsenal.
    Last edited by mofungoo; 03-17-2019 at 07:06 PM.

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    It depends on your objectives.

    Some people cap their bets at 300-400 for longevity purposes. Other people with spread to 2x1000 and do slash and burn.

    If you choose the former, put the money in the stock market. If you choose the latter, you'll need your growing bankroll.

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    I keep $70k as BR, if I go over it, it goes for pleasure. If it goes below, I keep at it till I have the $70k and then spend. Given that I intend to keep max bet at $200, play low Green, and play recreationally, it works for me. lActuallty, it's never gone that far below so I am considering lowering my BR. Lowest it's been since I first hit $70k is $58k. I am at $78k, now.

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    For Nonbelievers...

    Here is visual proof of ZeeBabar's bankroll:



    Just kidding, Z! ;-)

    Dog Hand

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    To the OP: you are making a classic rookie mistake. I did the same thing when I started. The thing is, most of us ran good in the beginning. Those that didn't typically quit playing. But there will come a time when you lose, and then you're in a situation. You have to build a bankroll.

    You say you have high interest debt. Let's say that's about 25% on a credit card. Do you really expect to make 25% each weekend? How far would that $500 go towards paying down your debt?

    Make a plan, then stick to it. There are many people who COULD be successful APs, but they lack self discipline. Use this waiting period to hone your game. Maybe make playing blackjack the "prize" when you pay off your debt.

    To the other question, I invest most of my bankroll. It is accessible if I need it, but I only keep so much "cash on hand". No sense having it lying around in the sock drawer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Hand View Post
    Here is visual proof of ZeeBabar's bankroll:



    Just kidding, Z! ;-)

    Dog Hand
    Pretty good Dog Hand except I was very organized, kept neatly stacked in 5k bundles and then put shoe cloth on it to conceal it. Kept it for about 1.5 years and then put it in safety deposit box. At first, my wife objected to using any of it on anything for the house or kids (saying it would jinx us) so I spent about $5k to $10k of winnings trading cars. In the past 5 years, I went thru 6 cars. Now, I am retired, the fixed income and pension is a lot less than my salary so I use it for vacations or helping out my kids.

  11. #11
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Think of stock portfolio where you have two options. Growth or Income optimization. You're likely at the point where you want to grow your bankroll so that the chances of a downtown at any point in the future does not put future income at risk so you reinvest your winnings (or most of them). Remember, your risk of ruin isn't just what your starting risk is. Everytime you pull out winnings and reset to $50,000 you're exposing the same bankroll to repeated trials and eventually something bad is going to happen. If I were you I'd always be reinvesting at least 50% of my winnings back into the bankroll until your either your risk of ruin gradually drops to close to zero or your betting unit is large enough to fade the expenses of travel and living without any issues. Once your BR is at a good level you switch from being focused on growth to being focused on income. As an income producer you can start taking out more money as your bankroll becomes more of an income stream. At what levels you decide to do what is really a matter of personal preference, just remember if your risk of ruin is 5% and you expose your bankroll to that risk 10 times and reset after each bank then your actual risk of ruin substantially higher (Cumulative Risk of Ruin). Probably in 50% range. https://bj21.com/category/advantage-...sional-gambler

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    Here's what I'm doing.I start playing with a bankroll that has 0.25% RoR or if you like 1/3 Kelly.I play till I have a 25% bankroll growth then I take the cream off and restart.Since I use a "stop point" with no time constraint, using the double barrier formula brings my effective RoR down to 0.21%That also means my chance of succes is 99.79%To cover my entire bankroll, I need to reach that goal 4 times. The rate of succes is then 99.16% making the RoR 0.84%Playing instead to the "usual" double the starting bankroll would have a RoR of 0.28% and a rate of succes of 99.72%The difference between 0.84% and 0.28% is 0.56%, which is the cost in RoR to "cream" my bankroll. The smaller your starting RoR and the easier it is to take the cream at different points. With a large bankroll and a very small RoR (say 1/5 or 1/10 Kelly) taking cream every 10% increase cost almost nothing.
    Last edited by G Man; 03-22-2019 at 01:55 PM.
    G Man

  13. #13


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    What are you going to do with the 'cream'? Will You spend it or re-invest it?

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