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Thread: Simple Count to Avoid Losing (OPP?)

  1. #1


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    Simple Count to Avoid Losing (OPP?)

    If I want to just enjoy myself on a random trip to a casino with the hope of, on average, breaking even or better (not trying to earn a living playing blackjack here), what basic counting system would you recommend?

    I know basic strategy cold. I have attempted Hi-Lo (without too much practice going in), and I usually keep the count about half the time, reverting to simple basic strategy and minimum flat bets as soon as I lose it (or if I'm feeling tipsy or chatting with friends or whatever).

    I would be interested in an extremely simple system such as OPP or Aces/Fives. On this forum, I see nothing but complete bashing of OPP, but every time it's being bashed it's being compared against Hi-Lo or KO, and often with the use of indices. That's great if you're an advantage player, but for someone that just wants to pretend they are playing a game of skill whenever they happen to, on a rare occasion, be gambling at the casino, is OPP really that bad? I'm the type of guy that the only two casino games I'll even play are Craps and Blackjack, and the only reason I'll play craps is because I won big the very first time I played. I simply don't like playing games where I know the house has an edge, even if it's the slimmest option in the casino... if I know I can make very simple modifications to my game to take the edge away. Yes, gambling is entertainment, but why not NOT lose money while being entertained?

    Please don't compare OPP to Hi-Lo or REKO or anything like that, especially if you compare outcomes with the use of indices. How does OPP compare against Basic Strategy or a simple strategy such as Aces/Fives? Assuming I can eliminate the house edge, what betting variation do I need to employ to have even the most minuscule of advantages?

    Otherwise, the plan would be starting my count at +6, increasing bets at +12 and above with a total bet variation between 1 and 5 units, and taking insurance at +18 and above, pretty much as outlined in the original OPP article from the early 2000s by Carlos Zilzer.

  2. #2


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    just use hi lo and maybe spend a bit of time practicing b4 u hit the casino u'll do alright

  3. #3


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    ..
    Last edited by Wave; 03-16-2019 at 12:01 PM.
    "This is a discipline thing. You either do it right or you don't do it at all."

    Don Schlesinger, pg 2, "Blackjack Attack: Playing the Pros' Way", 3rd Edition.

  4. #4


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    Hi, Milano

    OPP seems perfect for your style and it's not clear to me why you want a different system. If you play shoe games, why not just increase your spread near the end of a shoe? A 5:1 spread is not much and you should easily be able to increase that to 8:1 or even 10:1 without much heat, especially if OPP allows you to drink, chat, etc. The bigger bets will make it more exciting for you, if you can take the greater variance.

    Best,
    SiMi

  5. #5


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    At the very least use Ko in it's simplest form and wong out after the first 1.5 deck to 2 decks( better stop at about 1 deck if it goes bad) . start with 2 unit if you can afford( spend more) it and drop to 1 unit and play to 3 to 3.5 decks if it is 5 deck cut or better. If you don't even want to do that then you should accept playing a losing game . by using OPP and BS strategy is about the same as gambling to me . Even if use Ko or Hi Lo you are basically gambling until you hit 500 hours plus.( depending on the game) You can use Hi lo in running count mode as well .
    Last edited by stopgambling; 03-14-2019 at 08:22 AM.

  6. #6


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    I just read a description of how to use OPP. Holy cow... just use a real count and spread 1-4 if you only want to break even.

  7. #7
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    OPP never sounded any simpler than KO Rookie to me.
    "It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    I just read a description of how to use OPP. Holy cow... just use a real count and spread 1-4 if you only want to break even.
    even 1 to 3 can be a break even game with some good games

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by SiMi View Post
    Hi, Milano

    OPP seems perfect for your style and it's not clear to me why you want a different system. If you play shoe games, why not just increase your spread near the end of a shoe? A 5:1 spread is not much and you should easily be able to increase that to 8:1 or even 10:1 without much heat, especially if OPP allows you to drink, chat, etc. The bigger bets will make it more exciting for you, if you can take the greater variance.

    Best,
    SiMi
    Thanks for the advice. Pretty much the plan would be to start with Hi-Lo and convert to OPP if I feel like I'm losing it. I appreciate your advice.

    Norm, I feel like OPP is the simplest you can get outside of just basic strategy or aces/fives since you only have to count positives. Obviously it's not nearly as good, but I'm not comparing OPP vs other count methods (except the most simple), mostly just whether I can stay "even" in the long run. I like that you can ignore half the deck during your count, with the only thinking being to add splitting in your subtraction after each hand. I don't find KO variants any easier than Hi-Lo since I still have to count positives and negatives, the only difference being that I can bet at a specific number rather than estimating number of decks left.

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