Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Simple Count to Avoid Losing (OPP?)

  1. #1


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Simple Count to Avoid Losing (OPP?)

    If I want to just enjoy myself on a random trip to a casino with the hope of, on average, breaking even or better (not trying to earn a living playing blackjack here), what basic counting system would you recommend?

    I know basic strategy cold. I have attempted Hi-Lo (without too much practice going in), and I usually keep the count about half the time, reverting to simple basic strategy and minimum flat bets as soon as I lose it (or if I'm feeling tipsy or chatting with friends or whatever).

    I would be interested in an extremely simple system such as OPP or Aces/Fives. On this forum, I see nothing but complete bashing of OPP, but every time it's being bashed it's being compared against Hi-Lo or KO, and often with the use of indices. That's great if you're an advantage player, but for someone that just wants to pretend they are playing a game of skill whenever they happen to, on a rare occasion, be gambling at the casino, is OPP really that bad? I'm the type of guy that the only two casino games I'll even play are Craps and Blackjack, and the only reason I'll play craps is because I won big the very first time I played. I simply don't like playing games where I know the house has an edge, even if it's the slimmest option in the casino... if I know I can make very simple modifications to my game to take the edge away. Yes, gambling is entertainment, but why not NOT lose money while being entertained?

    Please don't compare OPP to Hi-Lo or REKO or anything like that, especially if you compare outcomes with the use of indices. How does OPP compare against Basic Strategy or a simple strategy such as Aces/Fives? Assuming I can eliminate the house edge, what betting variation do I need to employ to have even the most minuscule of advantages?

    Otherwise, the plan would be starting my count at +6, increasing bets at +12 and above with a total bet variation between 1 and 5 units, and taking insurance at +18 and above, pretty much as outlined in the original OPP article from the early 2000s by Carlos Zilzer.

  2. #2


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    just use hi lo and maybe spend a bit of time practicing b4 u hit the casino u'll do alright

  3. #3


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Hi, Milano

    OPP seems perfect for your style and it's not clear to me why you want a different system. If you play shoe games, why not just increase your spread near the end of a shoe? A 5:1 spread is not much and you should easily be able to increase that to 8:1 or even 10:1 without much heat, especially if OPP allows you to drink, chat, etc. The bigger bets will make it more exciting for you, if you can take the greater variance.

    Best,
    SiMi

  4. #4


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    At the very least use Ko in it's simplest form and wong out after the first 1.5 deck to 2 decks( better stop at about 1 deck if it goes bad) . start with 2 unit if you can afford( spend more) it and drop to 1 unit and play to 3 to 3.5 decks if it is 5 deck cut or better. If you don't even want to do that then you should accept playing a losing game . by using OPP and BS strategy is about the same as gambling to me . Even if use Ko or Hi Lo you are basically gambling until you hit 500 hours plus.( depending on the game) You can use Hi lo in running count mode as well .
    Last edited by stopgambling; 03-14-2019 at 08:22 AM.

  5. #5


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I just read a description of how to use OPP. Holy cow... just use a real count and spread 1-4 if you only want to break even.

  6. #6
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    OPP never sounded any simpler than KO Rookie to me.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #7


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    I just read a description of how to use OPP. Holy cow... just use a real count and spread 1-4 if you only want to break even.
    even 1 to 3 can be a break even game with some good games

  8. #8


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by SiMi View Post
    Hi, Milano

    OPP seems perfect for your style and it's not clear to me why you want a different system. If you play shoe games, why not just increase your spread near the end of a shoe? A 5:1 spread is not much and you should easily be able to increase that to 8:1 or even 10:1 without much heat, especially if OPP allows you to drink, chat, etc. The bigger bets will make it more exciting for you, if you can take the greater variance.

    Best,
    SiMi
    Thanks for the advice. Pretty much the plan would be to start with Hi-Lo and convert to OPP if I feel like I'm losing it. I appreciate your advice.

    Norm, I feel like OPP is the simplest you can get outside of just basic strategy or aces/fives since you only have to count positives. Obviously it's not nearly as good, but I'm not comparing OPP vs other count methods (except the most simple), mostly just whether I can stay "even" in the long run. I like that you can ignore half the deck during your count, with the only thinking being to add splitting in your subtraction after each hand. I don't find KO variants any easier than Hi-Lo since I still have to count positives and negatives, the only difference being that I can bet at a specific number rather than estimating number of decks left.

Similar Threads

  1. Simple Question for 'True Count Distribution' by Tag Values
    By greg16394 in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-14-2016, 08:11 AM
  2. Battery: Losing the count
    By Battery in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-17-2003, 12:44 PM
  3. Longhorn: simple count method
    By Longhorn in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-07-2003, 06:43 AM
  4. Jill Olsen: losing count
    By Jill Olsen in forum Blackjack Beginners
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-30-2002, 01:44 PM
  5. illsur5: Simple question, simple answer?
    By illsur5 in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-23-2002, 09:33 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.