Been looking and searching to no avail for info on Tarzan count. I would appreciate any info. or leads.
Meow
Blackcat
The Tarzan Count has the theoretical ability to micro manage strategy deviations.Originally Posted by blackcat
This is my understanding of the Tarzan Count:
1. There are 3 main card groups (sign of tag is relative to what remains in shoe. reverse sign if relative to what has been removed.)
+1 {T}, 0 {6,7,8,9,A}, -1 {2,3,4,5}
2. Additional information is maintained for these special subgroups (additional refinement could be added):
{A}, {T}, {6,7,8,9}
With the information provided in item 2, there is 1 and only 1 strategy set for each given input when number of remaining cards to be dealt is also provided. In other words there is no need to worry about indexes at all. If I input aces removed, tens removed, and (6,7,8,9) removed along with number of cards remaining into my software and ask it to generate indexes it always outputs a definite strategy, not an index.
My software has the ability to output a strategy for any valid input but there are many, many possible input variations. As someone who has previously played blackjack I would dismiss this as impractical. As someone who was developing analysis software I found it interesting. During the virus madness of a couple years ago I had nothing better to do than to modify my CA to be count sensitive.
Sample output for 6 decks midshoe (I input 157 cards remaining because my software processes all up cards at once. Midshoe strategy reference is after up card is dealt.)
k_cCode:Count tags {0,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,0,0,0,1} S17, D2, OBO, noHSA, NDAS Composition dependent indices for hand, rules, number of decks, and pen Player hand composition: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0: Hard 16, 2 cards Decks: 6 (possible input for cards remaining: 1 to 312) Cards remaining before up card = 157 Subgroup removals: {6,7,8,9}47 {1}12 {10}48 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T A Stand s s s s s h h h s h Double - - - - - - - - - - Pair p p p p p p p p p p LS - - - - - - - - - - ES - - - - - - - - r r Press any key to continue
Last edited by k_c; 01-12-2024 at 07:23 AM.
K.C., I like your statement: The Tarzan Count has the theoretical ability to micro manage strategy deviations.
The Tarzan count is not for players having difficulty remembering the I18 indices of even the Nifty 50 indices, as a typical Tarzan chart for one hand (say T6vT) contains 330 cases. Tarzan talked about his “luminous 50s”, implying a knowledge of at least 50x330 numbers (16500).
Of course, it makes no sense remembering all the numbers. Tarzan therefore used “visual” references recalling instantly his colored charts. His variations were calculated from deck compositions between 47 and 53 cards and were later simmed and confirmed by Gronbog.
The lowest level of Tarzan count yields instantly to perfect insurance and intuitively leads to correct strategy deviations on border line plays.
Attached is an example of what would look like a typical Tarzan Chart for 16vT at 2D, H17 according to my use of KCs’ CDCA.
KC or Gronbog may confirm if the deviations are correct or not. TZ 16VT.pdf
Last edited by Secretariat; 01-12-2024 at 08:15 AM.
If I were to employ such a system I would insist upon some sort of graphical representation across all pens that might be committed to memory. Might need to be 3 dimensional or too complicated to even consider. I definitely wouldn't care to try to remember multitudes of piece meal numbers.
Note that if ace is not side counted along with tens and (6,7,8,9) indexes again begin to appear.
Seems impractical except in theory unless you are like Rain Man in movie, "21."
k_c
Mental imagery was (still is???) part of Tarzan's approach so it takes a different mindset than traditional counting.
Regarding depth it's simpler than it looks as, at any depth, the Tarzan system allows quick and perfect computation of the odds of drawing a low, middle, or Ten card. Therefore, there's no need to be Rain Man to know how far below/above 33% the odds are of drawing a low, middle, or Ten card. This is probability theory at work instead of a less precise number line such as +2 or -3.
This is the beauty of his system even in its basic version. This is impossible to do with a level 2 or level 3 system. HiLo can me modified to get to the same result but mental computing time is slower and so is the Gordon Count with exact numbers.
And yes, Aces are side counted so you have four counts at the basic level.
Wish Tarzan was here to comment.
Last edited by Secretariat; 01-12-2024 at 10:38 AM.
----- Given count groups {A}, {2,3,4,5}, {6,7,8,9}, {T} -----
Without any regard for degree of difficulty in obtaining, in order for me to check any strategy with my software I need:
1. player hand, rules, number of decks
2. number cards remaining/removed
3. number of tens remaining/removed
4. number of 6,7,8,9 remaining/removed
5. number of aces remaining removed
A strategy set that doesn't involve indexes can be obtained with even more info than this, but not with less.
k_c
Hi everyone,
With all due respect to Tarzan, whom I understand is no longer with us, I would like to share my opinion about his system.
Beyond the difficulty of the system itself, and the fact that only Tarzan and perhaps Secretariat are capable of playing it, there are many limitations
when it comes to running a simulation and calculating a SCORE. So far, only one person (Gronbog) was able to simulate it and obtain a SCORE.
In private correspondence with Secretariat, we have seen that so much effort barely surpasses a system like Hi-Opt II/A.
Furthermore, one of my level 4 systems, with just a single side count of aces, outperforms both Tarzan and Hi-Opt II/A with only 22 indices.
I'm not saying that learning a level 4 system is child's play, but it is clearly much easier than learning a system like Tarzan.
I believe that nowadays it is essential to have software like CVData/CVCX to simulate any type of rules. Without specialized software to simulate
a system like Tarzan's, we can only discuss a "theoretical" value based on what only one person has been able to confirm under a specific set of rules.
Just my humble opinion.
Sincerely,
Cac
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.
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