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Thread: Rounds per hour

  1. #1


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    Rounds per hour

    In a heads up game, how many rounds do you think you get per hour:

    a) Playing 1 hand per round
    b) Playing 2 hands per round

    I need to get a feel for the figures so I can determine how many hours it will take to reach N0.

    Thanks,
    MJ

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    In a heads up game, how many rounds do you think you get per hour:

    a) Playing 1 hand per round
    b) Playing 2 hands per round

    I need to get a feel for the figures so I can determine how many hours it will take to reach N0.

    Thanks,
    MJ
    It would help if you specified what you're playing against, don't you think? If a six-deck shoe, Wong's Pro BJ, p. 237, gives 248 rounds for one hand and 158 rounds for two hands. So, of course, you're going to double 158, to get 316 and think you're doing better per hour by playing two hands instead of one, until you understand that, betting optimally, each of the two hands has only 75% of the one-hand wager. When you then take 75% of 316, surprise, you're back at the same 248!

    Playing two hands alone optimally, as compared to playing one, you are quite literally playing WITH yourself as well as BY yourself.

    Don

    P.S. This is one post more on this topic than I ought to be making. Rest assured that no matter how many more follow, arguing about how you can play two hands faster, and all the rest that I've seen, ad nauseam, this will most certainly be my last post in this thread.

  3. #3
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    Don, He wasn't asking the question you answered.

    Game speed heads up depends on you and the dealer. The game will only be dealt as fast as the dealer deals and you will play only as fast as you will play. The combination of the particular dealer and particular player determines game speed. I guess you just have to do some timing for yourself and get an average speed of your play and the dealers you face. Use 2.7 cards for each spot played including the dealer. Figure the pen in cards by where the shuffle card is placed. Simple math gets you the number of rounds. A watch get the time it took. Don't forget to time what it takes to get to the same point in the next pack. Like offering you the cut cards to offering you the cut card.

  4. #4


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    Talking about rounds per hour, some dealers, I had one yesterday (only the 2nd time I played in 2019), take a break between shoes. He dealt quite fast but conversation with a player slowed him down on some occasions and after the last round, he would take his time, step back, glance around, slowly take remaining deck out, break it in 2-3 clumps, place it in a different place each in the discard tray, slowly pick up the 6 decks, slow to put in ASM, slowly take out new desk, slow to offer the cut, slow to move cut deck to back of the rest, slow to ensure shoe is ready to start, look at tray, re-arrange chips in tray, sometimes encourage some passed by to sit, and finally start dealing, which he did quite fast.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    It would help if you specified what you're playing against, don't you think? If a six-deck shoe, Wong's Pro BJ, p. 237, gives 248 rounds for one hand and 158 rounds for two hands.
    Thanks, Don. Did Wong give numbers for an 8 deck shoe? Do you think it's worth playing an 8 deck shoe heads up with a white rabbit approach? Where I reside is mostly 8 decks.

    If a game has SCORE 25 but is dealt heads up with 200 rounds per hour, then c-SCORE effectively becomes 50, correct?

    MJ

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Don, He wasn't asking the question you answered.

    Game speed heads up depends on you and the dealer. The game will only be dealt as fast as the dealer deals and you will play only as fast as you will play. The combination of the particular dealer and particular player determines game speed. I guess you just have to do some timing for yourself and get an average speed of your play and the dealers you face. Use 2.7 cards for each spot played including the dealer. Figure the pen in cards by where the shuffle card is placed. Simple math gets you the number of rounds. A watch get the time it took. Don't forget to time what it takes to get to the same point in the next pack. Like offering you the cut cards to offering you the cut card.
    Why do you say I didn't answer the question? If he wants to time HIMSELF, then why does he have to ask the question in the first place?! If he wants the empirical answer, from someone like Wong or me, who have already done the math, then that's what I gave him.

    Don

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    Thanks, Don. Did Wong give numbers for an 8 deck shoe? Do you think it's worth playing an 8 deck shoe heads up with a white rabbit approach? Where I reside is mostly 8 decks.
    No, I don't see eight-deck values. But if you deal, say, 6/8, instead of 4.5/6, increasing the numbers by 6/4.5 = 33.3% wouldn't be the dumbest thing in the world to do. (I realize shuffle time is a bit longer for the eight decks.)

    It's tedious to play big shoes alone. You wait forever for good counts and you become conspicuous if you keep leaving. You need to back-count them.

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    If a game has SCORE 25 but is dealt heads up with 200 rounds per hour, then c-SCORE effectively becomes 50, correct?
    Yes.

    Don

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Why do you say I didn't answer the question? If he wants to time HIMSELF, then why does he have to ask the question in the first place?! If he wants the empirical answer, from someone like Wong or me, who have already done the math, then that's what I gave him.

    Don
    I am sorry if I didn't understand his question. My comment was based on the fact that you seemed to be answering the which is better, one hand or two question. His was a bit different, which gets me to my N0 faster. I have found other peoples assumptions don't apply to many of my situations. Like if I try to play fast I can play a lot faster than most people. The main thing that would be a variable here that would vary by the player is how fast the individual can play. How can anyone else make a reasonable guess at how fast another player plays? If he is going to go to a lot of trouble to figure this stuff out shouldn't he base things on the variables he faces not someone else guess at the same. Garbage in garbage out.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    I am sorry if I didn't understand his question. My comment was based on the fact that you seemed to be answering the which is better, one hand or two question.
    I answered the original question but then clarified that he should be careful not to make the assumption that two hands alone would get him to N0 faster than one, which can be deceiving simply looking at the numbers without also considering the optimal bets.

    Also posted twice more than I wanted to. Done with this. If I had $100 for every such post I've made over the years, I could donate it to MJ1, and he'd never have to play again!

    Don

  10. #10
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    If you convert n0 of playing one hand to playing two hands I get 19,355 for playing one hand with Hilo full heads up using the standard settings in the CVCX settings in the BJ resource tool bar above. Multiply by .75 and you get a two hand equivalent for cards played of 14,516.25 rounds. Check the two hand option and n0 is 13,293. So if all that matters to you is what happens when playing through the same amount of cards two hands get you to your n0 a lot faster than one hand heads up. If you are interested in converting to hourly you have to factor in the game speed ratio as well. Personally I think worrying about hourly is not as useful as keeping things in round equivalent for the same number of cards played because hourly is dependent on many things that vary. Making it a round equivalent makes a more useful and accurate comparison. But that could be viewed as an opinion.
    Last edited by Three; 02-12-2019 at 09:40 AM.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    No, I don't see eight-deck values. But if you deal, say, 6/8, instead of 4.5/6, increasing the numbers by 6/4.5 = 33.3% wouldn't be the dumbest thing in the world to do. (I realize shuffle time is a bit longer for the eight decks).

    Don
    Don, if you inflate Wong's figures by 33% for the 8 deck game as you suggest, then that yields the following-

    248*1.333 = 330 rounds heads up, 1 hand (8 decks)

    158*1.333 = 210 rounds heads up, 2 hands (8 decks)

    The latter figure seems feasible, however the former I have a difficult time believing. 330 rounds in an hour is +5 rounds dealt per minute. Don't forget you have to also allow for shuffle time which would further inflate the rounds per minute. Do you really think 330 rounds dealt per hour is attainable in live play?

    MJ

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    Don, if you inflate Wong's figures by 33% for the 8 deck game as you suggest, then that yields the following-

    248*1.333 = 330 rounds heads up, 1 hand (8 decks)

    158*1.333 = 210 rounds heads up, 2 hands (8 decks)

    The latter figure seems feasible, however the former I have a difficult time believing. 330 rounds in an hour is +5 rounds dealt per minute. Don't forget you have to also allow for shuffle time which would further inflate the rounds per minute. Do you really think 330 rounds dealt per hour is attainable in live play?

    MJ
    I apologize for this. What I wrote doesn't make sense. It really makes little difference in rounds per hour if you use six decks or eight. You'll get a little more for the eight, because of fewer shuffles, but that has nothing to do with the speed of the game when you are playing, which doesn't change.

    Turns out that when I wrote, "increasing the numbers by 6/4.5 = 33.3% wouldn't be the dumbest thing in the world to do," in fact it was!!

    Sorry.

    Don

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