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Thread: Lose rebate and indeces

  1. #11


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    I've never seen a luscious looking rebate program in Australia. It's more likely that your confederate misunderstood the fundamental difference between the US and Australian systems. Australian casinos don't use loss rebates, they use win rebates which means the player is returned a certain amount of money based on their total win amount. Some of the larger casinos don't offer any rebates at all on Blackjack or Pontoon, only on Baccarat, Roulette and other higher house edge games. The smaller casinos offer it on Blackjack but track every win so they can calculate the benefit, however, any sign of advantage play will quickly see you restricted or barred from the game.

    Your T-win is calculated by the house edge multiplied by the players turnover and a percentage of that figure is returned to the player often in the form of complimentary points which can then be converted to cash. A player is put onto a program depending on the amount of front money deposited and this determines the rate of return. These days a player would need to show a lot more than $100K to qualify for any form of airfare rebate and it is more likely that they maybe able to benefit from this if they were part of the Junket system which is common is Asia.
    Casino Enemy No.1

  2. #12
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    Same here. Hosts may take care of me when I lose but there is nothing assured.
    Last edited by Three; 02-10-2019 at 08:21 PM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EV_Does_It View Post
    Love how you ask a question but shoot down the first response you get. The reason you hit a 9 v 2 under BS instead of doubling is because hitting on average GENERATES MORE EV. Regardless of your loss rebate, you want to make the biggest +EV percentage play you can, and the loss rebate does not change the fundamental fact that in blackjack you don't double 9 v 2 unless the count is high enough.
    Why you do not consider additional EV loss rebate in hand and NO ?
    Last edited by Gramazeka; 02-10-2019 at 05:56 PM.
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  4. #14
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Don, what is your opinion ?
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Don ?
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  6. #16
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    There was a good sounding rebate in Australia a dozen years ago. Folks I know that went didn't have good results.

    I do not believe you should change your indices based on the rebates that I've studied.
    "It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus

  7. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    Don ?
    This is not an area that I've studied carefully. However, while I think that loss rebates can surely figure into your bankroll requirements, Kelly betting, and ROR calculations, I don't see offhand why they would cause you to play your hands differently from what is traditionally "correct."

    I would be happy to learn more about that and would not be shocked to find out that I could be wrong, but that is my opinion at the moment.

    Don

  8. #18
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    I think the only indices that would make sense to alter are risk averse indices. Higher variance and risk can be your friend depending on the rebate structure, but I never studied it to say anything more than a course of action to research. Like a positive but slightly less EV that has twice the magnitude for individual results might be favorable given the rebate. If you are trying to hit a target win or lose the amount to get the rebate that variance may increase how often you make that target amount with little reduction in EV. I am actually getting a loss rebate at some casinos. I would be interested in any research you do.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    To begin, let's remember-
    Insurance and bet it is a correlated event or not ? Where are these old topics ?
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  10. #20
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    I ran a large number of sims on this for Arnold many years back. Basically, you can dramatically raise bets when substantially behind. But, I don't remember the nuances. Frankly, I don't think there is much you can do to substantially improve results over that provided by the rebate and normal play with a huge spread.
    "It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus

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