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Thread: The Reasons Why So Many Poker Pros Die Broke

  1. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    Never truly got the entire concept of AP poker. I understand that one should be betting in +EV territory, especially when your pot-odds are greater than your overall odds of making the nuts.

    Other than that, gaining any other +EV (such a psychological play and "reading" players) seems elusive. Especially when it comes to bluffing and computing your opponents bluffing percent.

    Cash games seem to be where the money is at. However, as a card counter, the overall mathematics of computing odds seems to be intuitive. The psychological aspect for 21 is known. Can't say the same for poker. Can't "read" a player to save my ass.

    If poker were purely computationally mathematical, then yeah, sure, poker would be easy! The whole psychological aspect leaves me in the dark.
    you summed it up pretty well. card counting is pure math + being able to get away with it.

    live poker involves a lot of math, for example sometimes you're forced to call based on pot odds against someone's hand range- but there is a lot more than math that goes into poker especially if you want to make good money.

    a good card counter with disipline could learn a poker strategy good enough to beat low stakes live games (basically tight and nitty) but they wouldn't make any money in higher stakes games as they would be so face up in hands.

    in poker you have to make constant adjustments to different table conditions and different players. you also need to be able to tell when other players are tilted, on lockdown etc. most of your opponents don't play the same way all of the time, especially when up or down a lot.

    additionally much like you need good cover for bj, in higher stakes games especially you really need to be fun/enjoyable to be around (something too many players, especially younger ones don't understand.) you get way more action that way. if you're some anti-social mute sitting there on his tablet watching netflix nobody wants to give you action and losing players don't have any fun so they are more likely to leave the game due to boredom. bad players love playing with me. someone else could play the exact same hands the exact same way i would, but i'll make more money than them for this reason. losing players, especially those in bigger games are there to have fun. it's an entertainment cost. much like the casino will give out comps dinners etc poker pros should make sure they enjoy themselves so they keep coming back.
    Last edited by tomf23; 02-05-2019 at 01:08 AM.

  2. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    It's easy to win in poker if you're playing against a bunch of drunk retards. You don't have to be super strong at reading people. Just play good hands / good position. Don't sit down at the table where everyone has a hoodie, sunglasses, and earphones in (they're all pros). After playing for a while, reading people should come naturally, assuming you're actively paying attention to what's going on.

    At least that's how it was explained to me by people whom I know that are good at poker and have consistently won over time. I've played very little poker, but have watched from time to time, and it's pretty easy to tell which players are there just to have fun, who's actually good, and the in-betweens. EG: Look for the guy who's limping into every pot and rarely raises. Be careful with the guy who folds almost every hand - and the ones he doesn't fold, he raises.

    right the issue is tables full of drunken retards don't really exist the higher up you go. at 1/2 nl tables players will be terrible. but due to the amount of money in play, rake and tips even if you're really good you're not going to make more than 15-20 bucks an hour. as a side hobby that's fine if you enjoy it. it doesn't make for a good full time job.

    as you move up in stakes, the drunken retards are lower in number and unlike low stakes games, you will also encounter some really good players.for example last week i was in a 10/25 plo game. there were 2 drunken retards which is nice. there were also 4 other pros and 2 nits.so i'm still battling the 4 other pros to get the drunken retards money. everyone wants their money as well so they aren't going to make it easy on you to get it.those 2 drunken retards were the entire reason the game was running.

    on the other hands i've seen plenty of 1/2 or 2/2 plo games with 4-7 drunken retards.in those games tight poker simply gets the money.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    I didnt say slots

    Its a game always available with 0 heat
    https://www.wired.com/story/meet-ale...slot-machines/
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  4. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    BJ im around 300-500/hour
    That's a great hourly. What's your BR ?
    I've been playing on and off for 40 years or so and have never had a losing year but winning at a measly $20/hr. As a hobby. I tend to keep my BR quite low as I like spending. Yes, I know, I'm my worst enemy

  5. #25


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    I just saw an amazing story on the other end of the spectrum.

    This is on last night's HGTV. The show is about the recent Lottery or other big money winners buying a house. In this episode, a young guy at his early 30's is going to buy a house. The host as usual asked him how he won the money and how much he will spend. The question is for him and the girl he brought with. And the host called her "the wife" by mistake. Usually it is wife. But the guy said he just met her on Internet two weeks ago. And the other answer is that he just won 4 million dollars on the Poker tournament and after he paid off the debt he accumulated over the years, he will spend 1.5 million dollars on a house. The host asked what style's house he likes, he said modern. Then the host showed him a house. Then the viewers got the second joke, he said the house is old, not modern. The host subtly let him know, "Oh, you mean you want a new house even the style is traditional." So he showed him two more house, new but in traditional style, not modern style.

    You see, not all Poker died broke. This Poker Pro didn't have a girl friend and a house, now suddenly owns a mansion and a glorious girl friend after winning a big pot of money.
    Last edited by BJGenius007; 02-10-2019 at 08:24 AM.

  6. #26


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    How many AP and AP wannabe did broke? More of less than poker pros?

  7. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    he will spend 1.5 million dollars on a house.
    To paraphrase a line from a MOnty Python movie - But I'm not broke yet.

    Expensive house has lots of ongoing expenses - taxes, maintenance, furnishings, landscaping, etc. Odds are he won't repeat another big poker win and he'll lose the house as he won't be able to maintain the income required for it. It's the same reason most why lottery winners are broke within a few years - poor financial planning and unrealistic expectations.

  8. #28
    Senior Member drunk's Avatar
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    I think one of the reasons not mentioned is that the poker community values bragging rights so highly
    the big winners are getting lots of media attention and that stuff is addictive - appearing on ESPN and elsewhere
    particularly with the big tourney wins
    they want to be known as someone who just won mucho buckos

    so what they risk is out of proportion - larger than it should be
    humans are the only species that could think of cutting down trees, making paper out of them and then writing on the paper "save the trees"

  9. #29


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    tomf23,

    We have communicated privately at length and in general, I concur.

    But here is a story for public consumption.

    Several years ago, young player in need of ready cash, borrowed

    a few thousand dollars from me, with double the value of the loan.

    I had the jeweler of my choice assure me of what HE would pay me

    if the youngster forfeited on his 90 day loan, which he did; but I got

    released of $60,000 in cash, chips and bling, by a known jewel thief

    in Atlantic City. Back to my tale. This youngster took me on a tour

    of the big Poker Room in The Borgata in A.C. and then the hotel

    itself, where he walked me around and intro'd me to numerous pro

    players who shared rooms at a "casino rate" 2 and 3 to a room for

    $90 dollars a day, and had no actual address. Almost all appeared to

    be about 25 yrs. old. It was a learning experience for me; as I would

    soon discover that every $2-$5 NLHE had one, and only one, Pro

    player ~ by prior agreement, and shared bankrolls; thus leaving

    them with a flock of tourists, drunks, and degenerates to fleece.

    The other thing to know is this. I have never been in any (substantial)

    Poker Room where there were no players who were actually bookies

    and drug dealers. In fact, top opioids sell for $1.00 a milligram.







    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 02-10-2019 at 01:23 PM.

  10. #30


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    Quote Originally Posted by SplitFaceDisaster View Post
    Seems like a really solid win rate for live poker from what I`ve heard. Curious what area of the country you live in... California? If you`d rather not share that, I completely understand. I ask because I`ve heard from a couple poker players that the live cash games here in Vegas are pretty tough at those stakes. I`m sure there are people making that much, but my guess is probably not a whole lot.
    Actually ive rarely played in cali, once or twice

    Midwest stores, some vegas, atlantic city, PA

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