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Thread: Odd observation - Playing PS = losing more when count high

  1. #1


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    Odd observation - Playing PS = losing more when count high

    I've been working on the road to becoming an AP. I started with learning PS and was able to complete 1,000 hands without error. I then learned to keep the running count and calculate the true count, being able to keep count through many shoes on an app and keep perfect count with an at-home 6D shoe I made.

    Having attention issues I have started playing PS level bet at a few stores to practice keeping count in the real world before adding in the final step of deviations. It's been hard - very hard. (I don't have anyone else I can practice with so I can't effectively back-count in a store).

    In doing this I have come to observe one thing which is nearly as true as a rule: I win far more hands when the count is very low and I lose far more hands when the count is very high. It's gotten to the point where I walk when the count gets outrageously high because I lose nearly every hand. Low count: I rack in the wins.

    This seems counter-intuitive. Highly.

    Is this the norm? Are the plus-counts only beneficial when applying deviations?

  2. #2


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    There’s not much of a difference in win rate in low counts versus high counts. Certainly, index play will assist your endeavours oh higher win rates in both negative and positve situations.

    Higher counts are beneficial for higher number of blackjacks, and for higher success rates on doubles, splits, and doubles after splits.

    Your sample size us definitely to small, and possibly selective memory.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by GMass View Post
    In doing this I have come to observe one thing which is nearly as true as a rule: I win far more hands when the count is very low and I lose far more hands when the count is very high. It's gotten to the point where I walk when the count gets outrageously high because I lose nearly every hand. Low count: I rack in the wins.
    Do you happen to count the high cards 10, J, Q, K, A as a + 1 each time you see one? While counting the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 as a -1 each time you see one? If you do that is your mistake as you are doing it backward.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    There’s not much of a difference in win rate in low counts versus high counts. Certainly, index play will assist your endeavours oh higher win rates in both negative and positve situations.

    Higher counts are beneficial for higher number of blackjacks, and for higher success rates on doubles, splits, and doubles after splits.

    Your sample size us definitely to small, and possibly selective memory.
    I just re read my commentary. There is an interesting flaw pertaining to a portion my comments. Can anybody spot it?

    It shouldn’t be obscure, but Im guesssing that not many will spot it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mickey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    I just re read my commentary. There is an interesting flaw pertaining to a portion my comments. Can anybody spot it?

    It shouldn’t be obscure, but Im guesssing that not many will spot it.
    This may not be the one you're eluding to, but [insurance opportunities] would certainly also be another edge an AP would have during high counts, yes?

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    There is an interesting flaw pertaining to a portion my comments. Can anybody spot it?
    You don't mean the typos "oh" in the first line and "us" and "to" in the last line?

    And Mickey, it's alluding, not eluding to.

    I'm putting Don out of work...

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey View Post
    This may not be the one you're eluding to, but [insurance opportunities] would certainly also be another edge an AP would have during high counts, yes?
    No

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    There’s not much of a difference in win rate in low counts
    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Certainly, index play will assist your endeavours oh higher win rates in both negative
    The first quote should say: In low and high counts,
    there’s not much of a difference in
    the normal percentages of winning hands versus losing hands.

    The second should say:
    Index play will assist your endeavors on having less money loss in negative situations.
    Last edited by BoSox; 01-19-2019 at 04:45 PM.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    The first quote should say: In low and high counts,
    there’s not much of a difference in
    the normal percentages of winning hands versus losing hands.

    The second should say:
    Index play will assist your endeavors on having less money loss in negative situations.
    You guys are cold. Concentrate in second paragraph. Ignore typos or grammar farts.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    You don't mean the typos "oh" in the first line and "us" and "to" in the last line?

    And Mickey, it's alluding, not eluding to.
    Most all of his post have those same things.

    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    I'm putting Don out of work...
    Pertaining to grammar, Don put his hands up in the air on many of us a long time ago.
    Last edited by BoSox; 01-19-2019 at 05:08 PM.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Most all his post have those same things.

    Pertaining to grammar, Don put his hands up in the air on many of us a long time ago.
    The error, regarding my comment of higher win rate on doubles and splits, is erroneous. Think it through.

  12. #12


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    Depends on whether it's an offensive or defensive split. In higher counts, you lose defensive splits more frequently, which is why there are reverse indices, for example, 88vT.

  13. #13


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    Freightman, I will take a failure on your test. Besides I am expecting 9 to 12 inches of snow, followed up with up to a half inch of ice, then an arctic blast of cold from Canada.
    Last edited by BoSox; 01-19-2019 at 05:33 PM.

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