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Thread: Why the rule that the dealer stands on a hard 17?

  1. #1


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    Why the rule that the dealer stands on a hard 17?

    I have been wondering about the house rule that the dealer stands on hard 17.
    If you were playing "solataire" blackjack where there were no other players
    and your goal was to get as high a score as possible without going over 21
    wouldn't your best strategy be to stand on hard 15? That is because if
    you drew on hard 15 there are 7 cards that would bust you and only 6 that
    would improve your hand.


    If casinos changed their rules so that the dealer had to stand on hard 15, I
    think that many players would consider the change to be in their favor. Would
    the reverse be true? What do you think?

  2. #2


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    You haven’t got an answer yet, because your question is ridiculous. Further, since this your first post, many would consider your post as trolling. You either need to learn basic, or attack in some other line of endeavour.

  3. #3


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    Tough crowd today

    OP, yes, your question is ridiculous. Do some basic reading/learning.

  4. #4


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    I think you are a player, not a mathematician. I am a mathematician, not a player. I am interested in blackjack because it is the most difficult casino game to analyse; in fact it was not analysed mathematically until the 1950s by three army statisticians at Ft. Meade, Md. They developed the Basic Strategy. Edward Thorp carried on their work and discovered that the game favored the player when the remaining deck is rich in high cards, hence card-counting.

    Part of my studies has involved computing by hand Thorp's table of dealer probabilities. I did so to avoid being accused of copyright violation in case I quoted it in a publication and it contained an error. I found it to be correct to four figures but was computed on the basis of a single deck not containing the dealer's up card. Did you know that?

    I have found studies of strategy variations based on dealer's drawing rules but only on whether or not he must stand on a soft 17. I have not found any based on his standing on a different total and possibly none exist because casinos do not offer such games. As I said, I do not play blackjack but am interested only in its mathematics.

    If you would like to know me better, look me up in the Wizard of Vegas forum under the same name. There are a few excellent mathematicians there and I have had conversations with two of them, Elliot Jacobson, Ph. D. and the Wizard himself. I was wondering if there are any such people here. A mathematician would understand that my question is not trivial.

    Perhaps I should add that I am the author of "A Player's Guide to Lotto Strategies," available on Amazon. In it I debunk nearly all of the popular books on how to win the lottery. It has sold a few hundred copies, but the books I debunk sell much better because people have dreams and are willing to grasp at straws to see them realized.
    Last edited by kratchik; 01-11-2019 at 09:48 AM.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by kratchik View Post
    I think you are a player, not a mathematician. I am a mathematician, not a player.
    The player does not need to be a true mathematician as all the pertinent work on the analysis of the game itself has already been done for us by top-notch mathematicians.


    Last edited by BoSox; 01-11-2019 at 10:29 AM.

  6. #6


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by kratchik View Post
    Perhaps I should add that I am the author of "A Player's Guide to Lotto Strategies," available on Amazon. In it I debunk nearly all of the popular books on how to win the lottery.
    I hope you didn't spent much time on it.

  7. #7


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    Kratchik
    The fundamental issue is analyzing your 2 card holding against dealer upcard. The next step is to analyze how to win more money when appropriate to do so, and how to lose less money when you do not have the advantage. This is simple straightforward math. Tables to do so have been established and used for some time.

    Your simplistic example shows a fundamental lack of understanding. If you are a mathematician, then surely you understand combinatorial analytics.

  8. #8


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    I'd love to play a game if the rule was dealer stands on 15....

  9. #9


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    Freightman
    I have read some of your posts and I thank you for your unusually polite response. You are telling me how to play blackjack and I agree with you completely, however I don't play. I have read some of the books and seen the tables. I have even computed some myself.

    Players seldom have an advantage at a casino game and when they do and win consistently they get banned. I prefer to play the stock market. There you don't have to go to a casino, you can do it at home. There is no house limit and at times the player has a big advantage. If you win big you aren't banned but are cheered as a hero. Altogether it's a much better game!

    therefinery
    I did get some good reviews. You can check them out on Amazon. One reviewer on Amazon Britain panned it because I said all of the systems were bunk. That's only partly true. I was infuriated by one outright scam (The Lotto Black Book) and faulty math (Gail Howard, etc.) so I had to say something.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by kratchik View Post
    Freightman
    I have read some of your posts and I thank you for your unusually polite response. You are telling me how to play blackjack and I agree with you completely, however I don't play. I have read some of the books and seen the tables. I have even computed some myself.

    Players seldom have an advantage at a casino game and when they do and win consistently they get banned. I prefer to play the stock market. There you don't have to go to a casino, you can do it at home. There is no house limit and at times the player has a big advantage. If you win big you aren't banned but are cheered as a hero. Altogether it's a much better game!
    Miracles of modern technology, I write this as I fly, getting close to my destination.

    I can be very polite. I also recognize that I can be an asshole - example - dealing with the Dipshit, who is worthy of disdain. Though not evident in your OP, I can now see levels of intelligence emerge, and that is good. Accordingly, I trust you will forgive me for categorizing your initial post as dumb.

    The game is afoot when one descends to a house edge game, with the full intent if overcoming said edge, and walking away a winner. The stock market is not that much different, though one doesn’t have that nasty little min bet to worry about, qthough I think it tends to be a zero sum game. One party must win, one party must lose, and the facilitators get paid regardless of outcome.

    You are also correct in your assumptions as well. A good operator can do well, and another, who doesn’t train himself for battle, will get beaten up.

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