Can anyone explain this to me?

[Midwest Player]

We didn't do "seminars"; it was a five-week class, three hours once a week, for five sessions. Total of 15 hours of instruction for ... $495. :-) It was also 35 years ago, so don't know what inflation might have done to that price.

Don

Assuming this was back in 1983 after adjusting for inflation today's cost would be about $1,252. It is still a long way from $3,000 and I think a five week course would cover more than a two day seminar.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

[lij45o6]

Those of us who learned without their bootcamp must be smarter than they are......!!!????

Or maybe we both learned and the knowledge was valuable for both but at differing prices...?????

I had a mentor and I can ablsolutely state that the knowledge he provided was worth way more thatn 3k.

Presuming it is $3,000 to just learn hilo is displaying your ignorance and arrogance.

It may not be a bargin, but it does produce a quality product.

The supposition of my OP is not that of designating intellectual superiority over those who took the class.

Rather, it was the questioning of whether 3 K is "worth it", in the sense of utility relative to other methods of learning 21 AP'ing.

You are free to draw any conclusion, but assuming there is a malicious component is far-fetched.

Or, you have intimate knowledge associated with the program that you could provide. Would like to know what someone would get out of this.

[ZeeBabar]

Too many assumptions about the boot camps. Since most come to boot camp already knowing the basic HiLo count, a basic understanding of the game, it's not about teaching HiLo. Many gain information through forums, archives, reading books and having to find practice partners and such, it can take months or years.

It's like walking to a destination versus paying a cab or a link to take you to the same place. Some people believe it is less expensive and healthier to walk, others think taking a nice air conditioned can is preferable. You get there quicker and in more comfort.

[refinery]

I have attended "excel" software instruction seminars paid for by the company I worked for. I can assure you the cost was not $3,000 per person. I also attended a time use management seminar. The cost for that was in the $200 to $300 range, but this was years ago.

Here is what the cost is for some seminars are in the U.P. of MI. I stand by my opinion that $500 would be plenty for a two day seminar.
https://www.findaseminar.com/tbs.asp...city=MARQUETTE

I clicked the link. Do you not see the size of the seminar? That's not a class, it's a symposium. Learning the software I taught could give someone a 140k/year job. Do you not see how these things are similar?

[refinery]

Assuming this was back in 1983 after adjusting for inflation today's cost would be about $1,252. It is still a long way from $3,000 and I think a five week course would cover more than a two day seminar.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Jesus. Stop saying seminar!

[Member Name Hidden]

There's an old saying:
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach.

Colin's team was a mismanagement disaster. Apparently, he's a better salesman than AP.

[BoSox]

Colin's team was a mismanagement disaster. Apparently, he's a better salesman than AP.

Coward.

[RCJH]

Worth and value are in the eye of the beholder. Some learn better by reading, others by hearing and seeing. Although I did not go to a boot camp, two of the very best counters I know are alumni.

[Dbs6582]

Worth and value are in the eye of the beholder. Some learn better by reading, others by hearing and seeing. Although I did not go to a boot camp, two of the very best counters I know are alumni.

RCJH, when you say the “the very best counters”, what do you mean by that? The math is the math. If someone is using Hilo and playing it perfectly, how are you able to detect differences between two people who use the same system. As you know, Hilo is not a complicated system. Most people who spend any time practicing it can play it perfectly, or very close to perfectly.

I’ve heard these kind of comments before and never understood them. No one would say someone can count 2+2 =4 better than someone else. But in the AP world two people doing the same math perfectly will get rated differently.

If you’re referring to their skills on “getting away with it” then that makes sense. Obviously, there is unique skill set involved in “getting away with it” that goes above counting and the math.

[Freightman]

RCJH, when you say the “the very best counters”, what do you mean by that? The math is the math. If someone is using Hilo and playing it perfectly, how are you able to detect differences between two people who use the same system. As you know, Hilo is not a complicated system. Most people who spend any time practicing it can play it perfectly, or very close to perfectly.

I’ve heard these kind of comments before and never understood them. No one would say someone can count 2+2 =4 better than someone else. But in the AP world two people doing the same math perfectly will get rated differently.

If you’re referring to their skills on “getting away with it” then that makes sense. Obviously, there is unique skill set involved in “getting away with it” that goes above counting and the math.

As usual, useless commentary from the Dipshit. The subject of math being the math is one you seem to be dry humping. Tell me where I can send you a new pillow.

They’re skills that go beyond the math.

[Dbs6582]

As usual, useless commentary from the Dipshit. The subject of math being the math is one you seem to be dry humping. Tell me where I can send you a new pillow.

They’re skills that go beyond the math.

I agree. That’s what I said in my post. Did you read it? So what RCJH is saying is they have skills that go above counting? They have skills that allow them “to get away with it”. I just wanted to make sure that’s what he was referring to. It wasn’t clear from his post.

Freightman, it seems like you’ve gone back to your attack mode. Glad you got your mojo back. Lol. I missed your attacks and name calling when you went into hibernation mode for a while.

[Freightman]

I agree. That’s what I said in my post. Did you read it? So what RCJH is saying is they have skills that go above counting? They have skills that allow them “to get away with it”. I just wanted to make sure that’s what he was referring to. It wasn’t clear from his post.

Freightman, it seems like you’ve gone back to your attack mode. Glad you got your mojo back. Lol. I missed your attacks and name calling when you went into hibernation mode for a while.

As usual, the Dipshit missed the nuance.

[Dbs6582]

As usual, the Dipshit missed the nuance.

Then that means over 50% of the people on this thread are missing the nuances.

Freightman, have you spent any time reading the posts on this thread and seeing how they’re spilt almost down the middle? There’s a group, probably more in my camp, that see the Hilo system as being so easy that they’re suprised anybody would spend $3,000 learning Hilo in a two day course. On the other hand, there’s a group that believes some people need to spend $3,000 to learn Hilo because they aren’t good readers.

Obviously, other things are taught in this course and you get to network and meet Tommy Hiland which adds value to the course.

I don’t blame the BJA group for charging $3,000 for this course. If there are people willing to pay this amount, then they should charge this amount. As Bubbles has said, it’s supply vs demand. There’s a lot of demand for this course from this group (apparently there are a lot of poor readers out there, lol) so they’re able to charge a lot for it. It’s called capitalism, and the BJA group is stricking while the iron is hot. That’s called being good business people.

But the point is to execute Hilo and use I18 is not rocket science. This is basically what you learn in this course. Any legitimate bj book explains this system. It’s also on a lot of internet sites for free. Then all it takes is practice to do it to perfection.

Now learning how to “get away with it” is another matter. This is the real skill in being an AP. As you probably know, the BJA group doesn’t believe in cover or betting cover. Their main pro, Joe, says one of his goals is be backed off at all the casinos. He blasts away going from table min to table max and gets barred quickly. Is this the skill set people are learning in the bootcamp? If it is, I’ve already learned it listening to a GWAE podcast with Joe.