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Thread: Wonging, Hands played / percentage hands played per hour?

  1. #1


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    Wonging, Hands played / percentage hands played per hour?

    Hey out there,

    I am trying to get an idea of how many hands I might be able to get in Wonging it. I was looking for some estimates, or a way to analyze diferent games to estimate how many hands I might be able to play given diferent situations. I understand that speed of the dealers, number of players, and a hole host of variables can generate a wide range of answers, but I'm looking to try to come up with some estimates.

    I was figuring south vegas strip at least 3-4 tables in a casino with 1+ seat open 6-8 deck games 60 - 80% pen. average to slightly fast dealers / players.

    Wong in +2 wong out -2? -1? 0? Also, at this point I assume only being able to count 1 table at a time.
    Also, percentage of hands at certain counts or greater may be helpful to comeup with an estimate.


    Any info and ideas much appreciated.

    Zolas
    Last edited by zolas; 02-26-2013 at 10:18 PM.

  2. #2
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    Thoughts on wonging in: The key to wonging in, is having access to a good size number of tables in close proximity, but not necessarily in the same casino. South strip is one of the prime locations for this. But, back-counting draws attention and you won't be able to back-count long and enter more than a couple different times in one casino without them knowing what you are up to. Maybe a couple more times in a large store like MGM. In addition, places have different rules which don't make it as easy as it once was. Depending on location and stakes, NMSE. If they do allow mid shoe entry some places have restrictions like table minimum wager, one hand only, or one flat bet of your choosing for the shoe entered, which can still work, but these types of restrictions indicate there is a level of concern and entering mid shoe draws some level of attention.

    If you are willing to play until a negative count of 2, as your post indicates, an alternative is playing off the top of the shoe (entering at the shuffle) and still exiting at count of -2. You will be playing a few more hands at neutral counts, but still 'escaping' the most severe negative counts while drawing far less attention.

    I will add, that prime time for wonging is high noon and just after, maybe until about 2pm. Most casinos open a bunch of tables at that point, making the table to player ratio more friendly. This also ties up pit personnel for a period of time. In addition at a location like the strip, which has visitors coming and going everyday, there is less active gamblers right at mid day, with those leaving having had to check out at 11am while those arriving that day are going through the check-in process and not yet participating in the gambling activities.
    Last edited by KJ; 02-26-2013 at 11:21 PM. Reason: add-on

  3. #3


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    CVData Results

    Quote Originally Posted by zolas View Post
    Hey out there,

    I am trying to get an idea of how many hands I might be able to get in Wonging it. I was looking for some estimates, or a way to analyze diferent games to estimate how many hands I might be able to play given diferent situations. I understand that speed of the dealers, number of players, and a hole host of variables can generate a wide range of answers, but I'm looking to try to come up with some estimates.

    I was figuring south vegas strip at least 3-4 tables in a casino with 1+ seat open 6-8 deck games 60 - 80% pen. average to slightly fast dealers / players.

    Wong in +2 wong out -2? -1? 0? Also, at this point I assume only being able to count 1 table at a time.
    Also, percentage of hands at certain counts or greater may be helpful to comeup with an estimate.


    Any info and ideas much appreciated.

    Zolas
    Zolas,

    I ran three quick CVData sims for a 6D, 75% pen game with one card counter and three other players. In each, the HiLo card counter waits for a TC of +2 or higher to enter the shoe, at which point he plays until the TC falls to his exit point (0, -1, or -2), at which point he sits out. He continues watching the same shoe, though, in case the TC rises again.

    Using an exit point of 0, he plays 16.0% of the rounds; with -1, he plays 19.5% of the rounds; and with -2, he plays 20.4% of the rounds. Of course, these percentages are highly dependent on the penetration and the total number of players.

    For the "-2" exit point, the CC'ers distribution is shown below. Note that the TC's are at the START of the round: that's why you'll see some insurance bets at TC's below +3.

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand

    TC Total Total BJs BJs Splits Splits DD DD Insurance Insurance Total
    Hands Bet Hands Bet Hands Bet Hands Bet Hands Bet Rounds
    17 0.001% 0.000% 0.000% 0.000% 0.000% 0.000% 0.000% 0.000% 0.000% 0.000% 0.001%
    16 0.002% 0.010% 0.000% 0.010% 0.010% 0.010% 0.000% 0.000% 0.010% 0.010% 0.002%
    15 0.003% 0.010% 0.000% 0.010% 0.010% 0.010% 0.000% 0.000% 0.010% 0.010% 0.003%
    14 0.013% 0.030% 0.020% 0.040% 0.040% 0.050% 0.010% 0.020% 0.050% 0.060% 0.012%
    13 0.022% 0.050% 0.030% 0.070% 0.060% 0.090% 0.020% 0.040% 0.080% 0.100% 0.021%
    12 0.067% 0.150% 0.090% 0.200% 0.180% 0.270% 0.050% 0.120% 0.240% 0.310% 0.063%
    11 0.080% 0.180% 0.110% 0.240% 0.220% 0.340% 0.070% 0.150% 0.280% 0.370% 0.076%
    10 0.253% 0.570% 0.330% 0.720% 0.690% 1.060% 0.220% 0.480% 0.880% 1.140% 0.239%
    9 0.428% 0.970% 0.550% 1.170% 1.150% 1.770% 0.390% 0.850% 1.420% 1.860% 0.404%
    8 1.045% 2.370% 1.270% 2.720% 2.670% 4.200% 0.990% 2.180% 3.450% 4.500% 0.991%
    7 1.285% 2.920% 1.520% 3.260% 2.990% 4.830% 1.270% 2.800% 4.170% 5.440% 1.229%
    6 3.135% 7.130% 3.570% 7.660% 6.500% 10.790% 3.160% 6.990% 9.900% 12.910% 3.024%
    5 4.952% 11.260% 5.490% 11.750% 8.110% 14.270% 5.100% 11.260% 14.790% 19.290% 4.848%
    4 10.376% 23.540% 11.150% 23.870% 12.030% 22.900% 11.040% 24.380% 26.220% 34.200% 10.322%
    3 13.776% 15.420% 14.310% 15.330% 11.640% 11.880% 14.180% 15.660% 22.180% 14.470% 13.847%
    2 31.285% 17.200% 31.130% 16.670% 25.640% 13.140% 30.730% 16.970% 14.760% 4.810% 31.471%
    1 15.654% 8.580% 14.900% 7.980% 13.020% 6.680% 15.530% 8.570% 1.400% 0.460% 15.740%
    14.761% 8.070% 13.160% 7.050% 12.570% 6.430% 14.470% 7.990% 0.160% 0.050% 14.833%
    -1 2.861% 1.560% 2.350% 1.260% 2.480% 1.260% 2.780% 1.540% 0.000% 0.000% 2.874%

  4. #4


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    Thanks guys, two great responses.I need to get the cv for sims, i use the game cv software everyday.

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