Adding AA78mTc side count to High Low

[bjanalyst]

I belive I answsered this question from another person earlier in this long, long thread whic his now 16 or 17 pages. I woudl ask that you please look through the threads first before asking questions since I may have answered that questoins previously.

With that being said, I will include a chart wiht betting efficinecy fo KO and for KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) below.

Note that this chart is for the S17, DAS, LS game. I am not sure what game Blackard Card Counting efficency refers to . I got the EoR for ths S17, DAS, LS from BJA 3rd edition by Don Schlesinger.

So looking down the column labeled X1, KO count and looking at the row CC = CORREL(Y-array, X-array) you will see KO's CC with betting EoR are 96.51% which just happens to be the exact CC for betting that HL has for the S17, DAS, LS game. Aid if you look at column X4 which is KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) you will see CC = 99.57%. A similar analysis replacing 45m79c with 5m7c shows that KO + (1/2)*(5m7c) has a betting efficiency of 99.0%.

Betting Efficiency.jpg

[seriousplayer]

KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) has a betting efficiency of 99.6% for the S17, DAS, LS game.
KO + (1/2)*(5m7c) has a betting efficiency of 99.0% for the S17, DAS, LS game.

Am I dunk or something??? Where is the optimal betting table for both systems??? You know KO is an unbalanced count, right? Where and when do I raise my bet?? Will you provide optimal betting tables for the system at all?

[seriousplayer]

I belive I answsered this question from another person earlier in this long, long thread whic his now 16 or 17 pages. I woudl ask that you please look through the threads first before asking questions since I may have answered that questoins previously.

With that being said, I will include a chart wiht betting efficinecy fo KO and for KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) below.

Note that this chart is for the S17, DAS, LS game. I am not sure what game Blackard Card Counting efficency refers to . I got the EoR for ths S17, DAS, LS from BJA 3rd edition by Don Schlesinger.

So looking down the column labeled X1, KO count and looking at the row CC = CORREL(Y-array, X-array) you will see KO's CC with betting EoR are 96.51% which just happens to be the exact CC for betting that HL has for the S17, DAS, LS game. Aid if you look at column X4 which is KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) you will see CC = 99.57%. A similar analysis replacing 45m79c with 5m7c shows that KO + (1/2)*(5m7c) has a betting efficiency of 99.0%.

Untitled.jpg

Looking at your chart why does Hi-lo and KO have the same betting correlation of 96.5%? Wouldn't counting the 7s change the betting correlation for KO?

[Freightman]

I was young when thus thread started

[Three]

But, I was attacked for years after running that sim.

I know the feeling. LoL

Now you have my curiosity piqued. Perhaps you can PM some of the details of what you were doing and its efficacy. I am interested in what you were doing, the results of your research, and if you think others just didn't understand what you were up to or you were pursuing a dead end or something. If you were doing something similar I bet it is similar to some of my research.

If you can sim it then Gronbog will not have to.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Norm was offering to sim it. I think he just wants to protect his software. Hence the reference to you not having the license.

[seriousplayer]

Bjanalyst,

I am not buying your books. Firstly, I don't think you should be charging for your work because it is not complete and the systems you presented shows less effort. It is fatal to suggest a system to improve the betting efficiency without providing full range of "Optimal betting spreads" especially for KO and for each system variant. Secondly, all of your systems defeat the purpose of "ease of use". You shouldn't have to keep track of AA78mTc for Hi-lo to improve playing and in addition keep a separate count of 45m79c or 5m7c to improve betting. That is too much!! What if the player want to improve both the playing and betting and don't want to use two side counts? You rather just incorporate one secondary count into Hi-lo so that it can both improve playing and betting at the same time and not use another side count. It is ridiculous!

[bjanalyst]

Am I dunk or something??? Where is the optimal betting table for both systems??? You know KO is an unbalanced count, right? Where and when do I raise my bet?? Will you provide optimal betting tables for the system at all?

I started this post with the just HL with AA78mTc. I was not getting involved in betting strategies or such as betting has been covered extensively in many other published works.

But since you brought up betting, I will cover it briefing here on how it applies to KO. And this is not necessarily optimal betting. It is a betting strategy that I saw online that I liked and I just applied it to the KO.

I will include a few tables that are included in my books on betting and critical running counts. I made the Table of Critical Running counts for KO or KO + (1/2)*(5m7c) or KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) but the betting strategies have been published by many others which I just put here to be used with the KO or its betting running counts.

As I explained, I am not that concerned about exact betting because I play the six deck, five decks dealt S17, DAS, LS with the Lucky Ladies bet with my friend Carla. We call each other over to the six-deck table to play when either KO >= 24 or LLc = KO + AA89mTc >= 24 so we are playing only when we have an large edge and our spreads are very low because of this so our risk is low. We are playing mainly for the Lucky Ladies bet.

So I hope these attachments help.
KO Bettting1.jpg
KO Bettting2.jpg
KO Bettting3.jpg

[seriousplayer]

I started this post with the just HL with AA78mTc. I was not getting involved in betting strategies or such as betting has been covered extensively in many other published works.

But since you brought up betting, I will cover it briefing here on how it applies to KO. And this is not necessarily optimal betting. It is a betting strategy that I saw online that I liked and I just applied it to the KO.

I will include a few tables that are included in my books on betting and critical running counts. I made the Table of Critical Running counts for KO or KO + (1/2)*(5m7c) or KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) but the betting strategies have been published by many others which I just put here to be used with the KO or its betting running counts.

As I explained, I am not that concerned about exact betting because I play the six deck, five decks dealt S17, DAS, LS with the Lucky Ladies bet with my friend Carla. We call each other over to the six-deck table to play when either KO >= 24 or LLc = KO + AA89mTc >= 24 so we are playing only when we have an large edge and our spreads are very low because of this so our risk is low. We are playing mainly for the Lucky Ladies bet.

So I hope these attachments help.

My question is : Are those "Optimal Beting Spreads"? You have to go by deck depth using KO? That is too much in addition to keeping both secondary counts or let alone keeping one secondary count. Again, defeated the purpose of ease of use.

[bjanalyst]

Untitled.jpg

Looking at your chart why does Hi-lo and KO have the same betting correlation of 96.5%? Wouldn't counting the 7s change the betting correlation for KO?

The betting efficiency is the CC between the tag values of the count being considered and the EoR for the game being played. If you look at my chart I gave with KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) betting efficiency of 99.6% I wrote that this was for the S17, DAS, LS game and I obtained the EoR for this game from BJA, 3rd edition.

If you also look at the chart I listed betting efficiency of 99.3% for KO + (1/2)*(45m79c) for the S17, DAS, no LS game. And if you used other games and other rules the EoR would change and so would the betting efficiencies.

So I am not sure what game the blackjack calculator you listed above was calculated with.

As far as the betting CC of HL and KO being exactly the same for the S17, DAS, LS at 96.51% that is a weird coincide.

Intuitively to answer your question, for betting the seven should be counted as approximately (1/2) for betting. The HL counts the seven as zero an the KO counts the 7 as +1. So both are off from the 7 by approximately the same amount for betting so they counting the 7 as 0 or +1 for betting turns out to have he same effect.

It is interesting to note that the insurance correlation for the KO is right on.

The KO has an insurance CC of 78.32% and KO + AA89mTc had an insurance CC of 100%.

I will include the following chart for your review of insurance CC where we both agree exactly at 78.32%.

I hope that this answers your questions.

KO insurance.jpg

[bjanalyst]

I did not give optimal bet spreads. I just tried to explain an reasonable betting approach. My original post had nothing to do with betting.

I suggested just keeping KO with AA89mTc. That is where you get most of your gain. Because players were asking about increasing betting efficiency is why I mentioned the 5m7c. You should not try to keep two side counts if you have not even mastered the AA89mTc side count first. I mentioned the 5m7c to show that there are additional improvements to the KO with AA89mTc available.

Adding AA89mTc to the KO is very, very easy. I explained that I play the game by back counting the table with my friend Carla. We play S17,DAS, LS six deck, five decks dealt with LL bet with the generous payouts of 4, 10, 25, 200 and 1000 to 1 for any 20, suited 20, suited nd matched 20, QHQH and QHQH with dealer blackjack and we call each over to the able when either KO >= 24 of LLc = KO + AA89mTc >= 24. It is really very, very simple.

Carla knew nothing about counting when I first meet her. I taught her the KO and AA89mTc and in a matter of less than two weeks she was 100% efficient with both counts (I checked her count many times and she was right on with both counts) and she keeps both counts in her head. Carla is no genius and knew very little about blackjack when I meet her. If she can do this effortlessly for hours on end then you should be able to also. I explained in detail how to keep the AA89mTc. I explained that in this post in more detail that I explained it to Carla who picked up on it right away.

All you have to do is try it out for a while and practice it a bit. It is really not difficult at all and it will be second nature after you have done it for a while.

[Stealth]

Wow,

I see this thread has taken on a life of its own. Don't we all just love those "what count?" threads.

I also see bjanalyst responded with his betting structures which, will I assume are correct mathematically, only promote the players visibility to surveillance and examination. Lots of math stuff to tell me to bet more with higher count. Add one unit as your true count rises is very close to the same thing with the unit decided by your bankroll.

While one must be impressed by his mastery of the math, someone should do an intervention and reacquiant him with the real world.

Either sim the damn thing or stop the noise.

[bjanalyst]

Bjanalyst,

I am not buying your books. Firstly, I don't think you should be charging for your work because it is not complete and the systems you presented shows less effort. It is fatal to suggest a system to improve the betting efficiency without providing full range of "Optimal betting spreads" especially for KO and for each system variant. Secondly, all of your systems defeat the purpose of "ease of use". You shouldn't have to keep track of AA78mTc for Hi-lo to improve playing and in addition keep a separate count of 45m79c or 5m7c to improve playing. That is too much!! What if the player want to improve both the playing and betting and don't want to use two side counts? You rather just incorporate one secondary count into Hi-lo so that it can both improve playing and betting at the same time and not use another side count. It is ridiculous

!

First as I stated from the very beginning, I avoided mentioning my books until other readers brought it up and asked for detailed information. The books are only $3 or $4 if you buy it online. I am not making any money from my books and I am not trying to pedal my books. I have published this information as a courtesy at no charge. If you do not like it then do not use it. I never asked anyone to buy my books - it is your option. If they want more information then they can spend $3 or $4 for my book. And if you do not want to buy the books then don't. Buy a $4 cup of coffee at Starbucks instead.

Read my other posts about ease of use. I mentioned that I taught Carla, my friend who is not that bright and just of average intelligence, nothing special and who knew nothing about counting, the KO with AA89mTc and in less than 2 weeks she was 100% efficient in keeping both counts (I checked her on both counts) and she keeps both counts in her head! Carla does not even need any crutches like chips or using your fingers. These are +/- counts. You are keeping only two integers in your head. And with the KO, estimation of decks remaining is not that important as it is with the HL. Estimation to the nearest deck remaining is more than adequate when KO true counts are around its pivot of a true count of 4.

All I can tell you is that Carla and I have been using KO with AA89mTc for over 4 years now. We have no problem with the counts which can be played for hours on end with no exhaustion and no errors.

KO with AA89mTc is not ridiculous. What is "ridiculous" is keeping the level 2 HO2 with ASC where you have to estimate decks remaining very accurately and this is very hard to do which is why not many people use it and stick with the HL

I showed in previous posts on this thread how accurate KO true counts are around KO true count of 4 and how little it is affected by errors in estimating decks remaining. Review that thread for more details.

So bottom line, if Carla can keep KO with AA89mTc effortlessly and she had no special skills and is of average intelligence, then any reader on this post should also be able to keep KO with AA89mTc effortless after just a little practice.

[bjanalyst]

Wow,

I see this thread has taken on a life of its own. Don't we all just love those "what count?" threads.

I also see bjanalyst responded with his betting structures which, will I assume are correct mathematically, only promote the players visibility to surveillance and examination. Lots of math stuff to tell me to bet more with higher count. Add one unit as your true count rises is very close to the same thing with the unit decided by your bankroll.

While one must be impressed by his mastery of the math, someone should do an intervention and reacquiant him with the real world.

Either sim the damn thing or stop the noise.

If you read these threads, one of the readers has already agreed to do sims and he should be emailing me shortly. So just be patient and you will have your answer.

Also you are worried about being caught by surveillance and being spotted as a counter because of betting. I posted the standard betting which of course is what the pit looks for. I did not make up that betting. I posted it because I was asked about betting which was not the original purpose of my post to begin with.

My post was about increasing playing efficiency by adding AA78mTc to the HL or AA89mTc to the KO. I have also given examples of several playing variations made with the AA78mTc or AA89mTc which will throw the pit off if they are using the HL to track your play. There are situations with the HL = 0 where you would be taking insurance if HL + AA78mTc >= 4*dr so if dr = 3 and HL = 0 and AA78mTc >= 12 then you would take insurance which would totally throw off the pit. I showed examples of hitting hard 12 v 6 when HL true count = 4 and of not insuring and hitting hard 12 v 2 when HL true count was 6.

So if you are interested in longevity, the KO with AA89mTc or HL with AA78mTc helps not only with 12 of the 18 Illustrious 18 plays, it also provides camouflage so the pit assess you either as a non-counter or a very bad counter.