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Thread: Adding AA78mTc side count to High Low

  1. #807


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    Quote Originally Posted by bjanalyst View Post
    Maybe it is a good idea for you to STOP asking the same questions over and over and over again that I already answered. I am too nice answering questions that I already answered. I suggested in a previous post that I should just give a one or two sentence answer and say refer to previous posts for your answer and to please read pervious posts before asking question that was already answered before.



    that I already answered over and over and over
    Maybe you can start answering my question directly and STOP posting charts and calculations. If I read previous post and I don't find direct answers I will ask the question again. No if ands or buts about that.

  2. #808


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    Quote Originally Posted by bjanalyst View Post
    The evidences you posted show that your KO lose to Hi-OPT II ASC play all. There is no other way to put it. I challenge you in the exhibit that you attached to find a SCORE where your KO beats Hi-OPT II ASC with play all. Oh, I am talking about play all so please don't reply to my post saying KO beats Hi-OPT II ASC with backcounting. I am not talking about backcounting if you can understand English.

    Also, HO2-2(Adef) = 97.91% doesn't measure play efficiency it is a measure of betting correlation from what I understood looking at your chart you posted. How will that affect playing???

    Last edited by seriousplayer; 02-18-2019 at 09:27 PM.

  3. #809


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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    I guess I see your point, Norm.

    Maybe immortalize it as a "lessons to be remembered" for anyone who wants to work on a new system?
    There are still outstanding sims that need to be done and then this post can wind down. The most important is the sim for LS. And the second most important is to add negative KO system indices to the sim and see how the KO system play all then compares with HO2 w ASC.

    Originally I developed a lot of flax from users because they said only sims counted and if sims showed that my system underperformed the HO2 w ASC then my system was done.

    But my KO system beat the HO2 for back counting no LS and very close for play all even with limited negative indices for my system and you are still bashing my system. You are never happy and do not keep your word of giving me respect when my system beat the HO2 w ASC which the vast majority of users said would never happen.

    So when Gronbog gets back from vacation then he can do the LS sim and hopefully he can do a sim with negative KO system indices added. Those are the last two sims that need to be done.

    After those sims are done then you can issue your comments. For now, the sims are incomplete so you cannot make rational comments.


  4. #810


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post
    The evidences you posted show that your KO lose to Hi-OPT II ASC play all. There is no other way to put it. I challenge you in the exhibit that you attached find a SCORE where your KO beats Hi-OPT II ASC with play all. Oh, I am talking about play all so please don't reply to my post say KO beats Hi-OPT II ASC with backcounting. I am not talking about backcounting if you can understand English.

    Another one who did not read my previous posts. I mentioned in my previous posts that I included only a few negative indices where the HO2 w ASC had its full set of indices. So the play all sims were skewed to the advantage of the HO2 w ASC. If more negative indices were added to my KO system then the results of the play sims would be different. And again you are ignoring other advantages of my system namely accuracy, camouflage plays and side counts help with side bets.

    Also if you are such a big player, you can surely negotiate for a LS game and perhaps even more favorable rules as well. Where I live LS is standard and is offered in every casino where I live so I take LS for granted.

    So shop around for the best rules and do not play the no LS game. Play LS.

    When Gronbog comes back and simulates the LS game you will see a very big difference in my KO system and the HO2 w ASC from both play all and back counting. In a previous post I posted an exhibit showing that for LS my KO system beats the HO2 w ASC for every single LS decision and the BC for LS increases even farther over the HO2 w ASC. So what do you think the LS sims will show, Sherlock?

    With your level of play you can negotiate rules. You should not be playing the no LS game. Insist on LS.

    Where I play not only is LS is standard in all of the casinos, so is the Lucky Ladies bet. With the LL bet your edge can go to 10% or 20% or even more. Your maximum LL bet is $25 and you play $250 a hand so you are still having (1/10)th of yor bet, in favorable situations with the LL bet which will absolutely increase your SCORE also. I use AA89mTc for the LL bet where my LLc = KO + AA89mTc. This is what I meant by side counts helping with side bets. The HO2 w ASC is not as good for the LL bet as KO + AA89mTc.

    So if you played with LS and LL offered, my KO system would crush the HO2 w ASC.

    You chose the absolute worse game possible, blackjack with no LS and no side bets. And even in this terrible game my KO system beat HO2 w ASC for back counting and came close for play all and if some more negative indices were included with my KO system would probably come very, very close to HO2 w ASC for no LS play all if not surpass the KO w ASC.

    But my suggest is to avoid the no LS game instead of dwelling an a very small loss of my KO system to the HO2 w ASC for the no LS play all game because I did not include enough negative indices. You should not even be playing the no LS game.

    Play the LS game and find a game with side bets that my KO system side counts may help with such as Lucky Ladies or Blazing 7's. If you play this game my KO system will greatly outperform the HO2 w ASC.

    Last edited by bjanalyst; 02-19-2019 at 12:11 AM.

  5. #811


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post

    Also, HO2-2(Adef) = 97.91% doesn't measure play efficiency it is a measure of betting correlation from what I understood looking at your chart you posted. How will that affect playing???
    The increased Betting Correlation (BC) will increase your SCORE.

    This was shown to be the case when for my HL sims I added HL + (1/3)*(5m6c) for my betting running count (brc) which increased the BC by about 0.8%. The only thing that changed in that last HL sim was using the brc instead of HL for betting so that entire SCORE gain in the last HL sim was due to the increase in BC. Look at the sims that Gronbog posted and note the increase in the score from HL + AA78mTc + 5m6c to HL + AA78mTc + 5m6c b (where b = betting indicating that the brc = HL + (1/3)*(5m6c) was used instead of HL for betting).

    A look at the sims shows that the increase in the SCORE from BC increasing by 0.8% was around 2.5% for all cases, back counting and play all, when BC was increased by 0.8%.
    Last edited by bjanalyst; 02-19-2019 at 12:30 AM.

  6. #812


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by bjanalyst View Post

    Another one who did not read my previous posts. I mentioned in my previous posts that I included only a few negative indices where the HO2 w ASC had its full set of indices. So the play all sims were skewed to the advantage of the HO2 w ASC. If more negative indices were added to my KO system then the results of the play sims would be different. And again you are ignoring other advantages of my system namely accuracy, camouflage plays and side counts help with side bets.

    Also if you are such a big player, you can surely negotiate for a LS game and perhaps even more favorable rules as well. Where I live LS is standard and is offered in every casino where I live so I take LS for granted.

    So shop around for the best rules and do not play the no LS game. Play LS.

    When Gronbog comes back and simulates the LS game you will see a very big difference in my KO system and the HO2 w ASC from both play all and back counting. In a previous post I posted an exhibit showing that for LS my KO system beats the HO2 w ASC for every single LS decision and the BC for LS increases even farther over the HO2 w ASC. So what do you think the LS sims will show, Sherlock?

    With your level of play you can negotiate rules. You should not be playing the no LS game. Insist on LS.

    Where I play not only is LS is standard in all of the casinos, so is the Lucky Ladies bet. With the LL bet your edge can go to 10% or 20% or even more. Your maximum LL bet is $25 and you play $250 a hand so you are still having (1/10)th of yor bet, in favorable situations with the LL bet which will absolutely increase your SCORE also. I use AA89mTc for the LL bet where my LLc = KO + AA89mTc. This is what I meant by side counts helping with side bets. The HO2 w ASC is not as good for the LL bet as KO + AA89mTc.

    So if you played with LS and LL offered, my KO system would crush the HO2 w ASC.

    You chose the absolute worse game possible, blackjack with no LS and no side bets. And even in this terrible game my KO system beat HO2 w ASC for back counting and came close for play all and if some more negative indices were included with my KO system would probably come very, very close to HO2 w ASC for no LS play all if not surpass the KO w ASC.

    But my suggest is to avoid the no LS game instead of dwelling an a very small loss of my KO system to the HO2 w ASC for the no LS play all game because I did not include enough negative indices. You should not even be playing the no LS game.

    Play the LS game and find a game with side bets that my KO system side counts may help with such as Lucky Ladies or Blazing 7's. If you play this game my KO system will greatly outperform the HO2 w ASC.

    See this is what I am saying. I said don't talk about backcounting. You did just that. Play all sims are not skewed to Hi-OPT 2 ASC advantage. You are skewing both KO and Hi-OPT II ASC to your advantage by trying to limit the amount of indices to use for Hi-OPT II. Also, never assume that we don't play games with late surrendering. All counts are suitable for the Lucky Ladies side bet. It is just that one have higher IC than the other.

    I doubting that your system even after adding late surrendering would outperform Hi-OPT 2 ASC.

  7. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjanalyst View Post
    For play all my KO system almost closed the entire gap with the HO2 w ASC. How is that a failing miserably.
    You must be consistent in your terms. Hiopt2/ASC play-all beat your system by 10.92% if memory serves. So you are saying Hiopt2/ASC is 50% to 60% better than KO to make the statement that it almost closed the entire gap. Again more statements made by you that erode your credibility. You are either cherry picking or lying. Since your whole argument that your system beat hiopt2/ASC to begin with is based on cherry picking I will assume this is more cherry picking. But thanks for demonstrating beautifully how bad you cherry pick to make a point. I am sure everyone finds it instructive when assessing anything you say.

  8. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjanalyst View Post
    The increased Betting Correlation (BC) will increase your SCORE.
    This has been proven to not be always true. EV is based on the interaction of your bet ramp with advantage. SCORE also factors in variance. Have you learned nothing so far. This has been explained to be an errant statement by Don several times in this thread. Your own sim results showed it to be in error. Yet you still say it. At this point it can only be described as a lie, because you should know it is not true. STOP LYING.

  9. #815


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  10. #816


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post
    I don't think Gronbog simulated the Hi-OPT II ASC with full indices anyway. I think he simulated Hi-OPT II ASC and your KO system with the same amount of indices.
    I simulated HiOpt II ASC with the full index set as provided by CVData.

    Just a reminder that I am away until March 10. I have my tablet with me but no access to my computers

  11. #817


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    I simulated HiOpt II ASC with the full index set as provided by CVData.

    Just a reminder that I am away until March 10. I have my tablet with me but no access to my computers
    Besides late surrendering.

  12. #818
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    ET Fan has no understanding of how to compare systems. His comparisons of HiLo and OPP made this abundantly clear.
    Last edited by Norm; 02-19-2019 at 11:02 AM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  13. #819


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post
    See this is what I am saying. I said don't talk about backcounting. You did just that. Play all sims are not skewed to Hi-OPT 2 ASC advantage. You are skewing both KO and Hi-OPT II ASC to your advantage by trying to limit the amount of indices to use for Hi-OPT II. Also, never assume that we don't play games with late surrendering. All counts are suitable for the Lucky Ladies side bet. It is just that one have higher IC than the other.

    I doubting that your system even after adding late surrendering would outperform Hi-OPT 2 ASC.
    (1) I never said to limit the HO2 w ASC indices. I said that I limited my own KO system indices because I had included very few negative indices because I was not considering the play all game when I gave my indices to Gronbog. If the extra negative KO system indices were included in the sims then there would be a fairer comparison of the KO and HO2 w ASC for play all. If HO2 is using negative indices then for a fair comparison my KO system must also use negative indices.

    (2) All counts are NOT equally suitable for the Lucky Ladies. You absolutely want the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 out of the shoe because if you get any of these cards you absolutely lose the LL. The Ace and Nine are only marginally advantageous to give you a A9. The most the A8 can pay is 10 to 1 if suited. There can only be suited and ranked Tens for 25 to 1 payoff. So essentially you want the Aces and Nines out of the shoe also. I had suggested an judgmental balanced LL count where the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 as +1 the Aces and Nines as +(1/2) and the Tens as -2. But it is almost as good to just count all non-Tens as +1 and Tens as -2 and you have the unbalanced Ten counts, Tc = KO + AA89mTc, which I use for LLc. Using the HO2 for LL is not as good as using Tc = KO + AA89mTc for LL. The HO2 the 4's and 5's as +2 and the 8's and 9's and Aces as zero. The 4's and 5's should be +1 and the 8's should be -1 and ideally the 9's and Aces should be +(1/2) but I could them as +1 in my Tc = KO + AA89mTc which is almost as good. Plus LLc = Tc is unbalanced with a pivot of a true count of 4 so the decision to start betting $5 on LL when for the six deck game LLc >= 24 and start increases the LL bet when LLc >= 30 is good through the shoe. I had shown that the tc(LL) must increased as dr decreases. Using the unbalance LLc = KO + AA89mTc >= 30 to start increase the LL bet, this is all built into the cake. As dr decreases, LLc = 30 means that tc(LLc) = 4 + (LL - 4*n)/dr = 4 + (30 - 24)/dr = 4 + 6/dr increases as dr decreases which is exactly what you want for the LL bet. Bottom line, the AA89mTc helps with the LL bet and LLc = KO + AA89mTc is much better for both insurance and the LL bet than the HO2 count is.

    (3) if you do play LS, as you should, then you can just discard the sims for the no LS game and concentrate only on the sims for the LS game. As you are aware, all of my predictions came true. So my prediction, which I stated before, is that based on the fact the CC of each and every LS decision with my KO system beats the HO2 w ASC and also the KO BC when using LS EoR is over 1% higher that the BC of HO2 w ASC, then my prediction is that my KO will greatly outperform the HO2 w ASC.

    So I am basing my prediction of EoR that worked perfectly with my HL systems and KO system where I relied totally on the EoR to devise that system and that even with no LS my KO system came very close the HO2 w ASC for the no LS for play all and beat HO2 w ASC for back counting.

    So now let me ask what you are basing your statement that What are you basing your that you doubt my system will still underperform the HO2 w ASC even for the LS game. You statement is based purely on a hunch and not on facts.

    So you will have to wait until Gronbog gets back from vacation and runs the LS sims. When those LS sims are done you will see that my prediction of that my KO system greatly outperforming the HO2 w ASC will be shown.
    Last edited by bjanalyst; 02-19-2019 at 11:17 AM.

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