See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 27 to 39 of 41

Thread: What count system do you use and why?

  1. #27


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Three,

    To be clear, I am an occasional recreational player who revels in the idea that by using my brain, I have an increased chance to beat the house at its own skewed game. Using the HiOpt II ASC 8 to -8 to 8 gives me 66 deviations from BS, which includes Don's Illustrious 18 (although for cover purposes I don't split 10,10 v 5 or 6).

    My suggestion to BigJer was tongue in cheek. He is more serious about BJ than I.

    Questions for you: What is a "monster bet"? Is it greater than your usual max bet? At what TC do you use it?
    Last edited by 21frogman; 12-28-2018 at 11:19 AM.

  2. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Melbourne.
    Posts
    803


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by stopgambling View Post
    I used FELT for about 800 to 1000 hours but i felt the same way as KJ did . It is really not necessary for shoe games IMO ,even though it is not too hard . I did make a few mistakes along with some slow counting from time to time while using FELT .
    What did you not like about the FELT count?

  3. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by 21frogman View Post
    What is a "monster bet"? Is it greater than your usual max bet? At what TC do you use it?
    Max or super max bet. I guess you could include others near the top of your ramp.

    TC would depend on your system. My version of Hiopt2 gets an advantage at much lower TC, starting at TC +1 for a level 4 combined betting count with top tag magnitude of 2 instead of the traditional Hiopt2 count's TC +3. Traditional Hiopt2/ASC reaches max bet at TC +9. Advantage for my version of Hiopt2 slightly exceeds this traditional Hiopt2 advantage when my count is at TC +7. Traditional Hiopt2 has a higher frequency of max bet, while my version has a significantly higher frequency of all the other advantage bets. So my version makes more money from smaller bets while Hiopt2/ASC makes more of its money from max bet. Of course making higher percentage of your EV from smaller bets than your max bet reduces overall variance associated with making more larger bets. The EV is about 5% higher than traditional Hiopt2. So what I use isn't really Hiopt2 even though the main count is Hiopt2. I use a different betting count by using a balanced ace side count and adding half the side count RC to the Hiopt2 RC to calculate a betting TC. I can combine my two counts to make a handful of practical and quite different playing counts by adding different multiples of one count to the other. In theory you could come pretty close to matching the playing EoRs for every matchup by picking the optimal multiple of one count to add to the other to get the matchup's strongest playing count. But in practice I limit the multiples to simple to use fractions close to the optimal multiple. So far sim results are limited to using Hiopt2 as the playing count so EV improvement over traditional Hiopt2 is higher than what I quoted here. How much higher I do not know.

  4. #30


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Three, thanks for taking the time to further explain your system. While I don't pretend to understand the intricacies involved, I think I have an idea of some of the components and how they may mesh together.

    For my purposes, abbreviating HiOpt II/ASC appears to work adequately.

  5. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by 21frogman View Post
    For my purposes, abbreviating HiOpt II/ASC appears to work adequately.
    Yes. I just use some things in other games and they have become effortless for me, so I use them in BJ. Their uses are different than how I use them in other games and I wouldn't recommend the extra effort simply for BJ. For the effort Hiopt2/ASC is the best. No real need to get fancier unless that is totally automatic and you are looking for something more. Every count system gets the money. It is just a matter of what fits you and your skills best for the game you play.

  6. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I didn't intend the post to be a you have to do this or a road map to follow. But if you are a researcher I try to inspire you to think more creatively in pursuing your research. Hiopt2/ASC gets close enough to the perfect play ceiling that more is only for the very advanced player to strive of, because there is no need for more.

  7. #33
    Senior Member dharmaprija's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Scooter
    Posts
    328


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    My two cents ain't worth a plug nickel but here is how it has evolved for me. I started using the "Old Faithful" of counts, HILO because was primarily playing Shoe games. This was fairly effective but then I became wrapped up (and a bit bored) in improving all of the Data points that I possibly could with my meager intellect so began researching what counts were most effective for BOTH Shoe and HH games. The conclusion I drew, because I can't seem to manage to retain a SC to save my life, was that for MY specs and needs that the Zen count was for me. My reasoning was thus, it is not extremely complicated for a Level 2 count, it is balanced, Ace reckoned and works relatively well for both Shoes and DD which are the two I play most. As Three so oft and eloquently states in his tome like responses it is a matter of what the individual can do with the least amount of mental effort. He has mastered a way to work that requires little effort for HIM so that he can focus on the more important aspects such as maintaining cover, longevity, low variance, etc. I hate to say it for the possible flack I will get but in the end the count that one uses becomes a "feel" situation, it's like finding a mate in life, you will KNOW when you have found the "right" one.
    “The essence of independence has been to think and act according to standards from within, not without.”
    Aleister Crowley

  8. #34


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by dharmaprija View Post
    My two cents ain't worth a plug nickel but here is how it has evolved for me. I started using the "Old Faithful" of counts, HILO because was primarily playing Shoe games. This was fairly effective but then I became wrapped up (and a bit bored) in improving all of the Data points that I possibly could with my meager intellect so began researching what counts were most effective for BOTH Shoe and HH games. The conclusion I drew, because I can't seem to manage to retain a SC to save my life, was that for MY specs and needs that the Zen count was for me. My reasoning was thus, it is not extremely complicated for a Level 2 count, it is balanced, Ace reckoned and works relatively well for both Shoes and DD which are the two I play most. As Three so oft and eloquently states in his tome like responses it is a matter of what the individual can do with the least amount of mental effort. He has mastered a way to work that requires little effort for HIM so that he can focus on the more important aspects such as maintaining cover, longevity, low variance, etc. I hate to say it for the possible flack I will get but in the end the count that one uses becomes a "feel" situation, it's like finding a mate in life, you will KNOW when you have found the "right" one.
    Your conclusion to use Zen as an effective compromise as a 1 count play all for an assumed equal split between shoe and pitch - is a reasonable one.

  9. #35


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by dharmaprija View Post
    I hate to say it for the possible flack I will get but in the end the count that one uses becomes a "feel" situation, it's like finding a mate in life, you will KNOW when you have found the "right" one.
    Not true. I think most folks think the FBM ASC has the best feel good situation. It might just be too difficult to pull off in actual casino play.
    Last edited by Midwest Player; 12-29-2018 at 07:50 PM.

  10. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Not true. I think most folks think the FBM ASC has the best feel good situation.
    Now that is well phrased humor. Good one MWP.

  11. #37


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Not true. I think most folks think the FBM ASC has the best feel good situation. It might just be too difficult to pull off in actual casino play.
    For additional comfort, might I suggest Individual dual power golf tees, each with independent ball height controls.

  12. #38


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    [QUOTE=dharmaprija;262649 I hate to say it for the possible flack I will get but in the end the count that one uses becomes a "feel" situation, it's like finding a mate in life, you will KNOW when you have found the "right" one.[/QUOTE]

    So you recommend dumping the spouse, abandoning the kids when you run into a hot chick who shows the potential to satisfy you a whole lot more at this point in your life.

  13. #39


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    So you recommend dumping the spouse, abandoning the kids when you run into a hot chick who shows the potential to satisfy you a whole lot more at this point in your life.
    Not even close to what he said.
    The benefits of utilizing the FBM ASC go far beyond the dollars earned one enjoys from better blackjack results. Vascular improvement through steady use improves blood flow throughout the body. One measurable result is increased speed through the neural pathways which accounts for higher cognizant ability.

    Had you practiced the FBM ASC, I doubt that you would have made the erroneous conclusion espoused in your commentary.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. What Count System Do You Use
    By Midwest Player in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 180
    Last Post: 09-30-2017, 03:44 PM
  2. Level 2 count system
    By seriousplayer in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 08-03-2016, 09:40 AM
  3. Nine Count System or Fletcher System?
    By neocacher in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-09-2014, 09:20 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-11-2008, 11:31 AM
  5. 4 deck: looking for a count system
    By 4 deck in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-05-2001, 08:25 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.