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Thread: Best counting strategy for 6-8 deck games?

  1. #1


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    Best counting strategy for 6-8 deck games?

    Most of my local games are 6d or 8d. The best I can find is a 2d game about 2.5hr drive away one way, so it’s not an option most of the time.

    Anyways, I am just curious what is the general consensus on what the best card counting method is for 6-8d games?

    I have hi-lo down pat. I will have no problem going to a more advanced count if it is better than hi-lo for these 6-8d games. Looking forward to hearing opinions.

    Thanks

  2. #2


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    You will get some very strong opinions on a variety of counts.

    I would expect most will suggest a part time counter should use HiLo with a minimum of the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 departures. If you desire additional improvement, then first look at modifying your playing protocoal to drastically reduce your play in negative counts (Wong/Back Count). Then for a nominal improvement, add more depatures to your game.

    Then, For a much more difficult, and many believe with a higher error rate, count that will provide about .25% (estimate, your results may vary) improvement then look at HiOPT II with an ace side count. Then add the wong/back count capability to improve even further.

    As an overarching thought, if you are proficient at a count, nothing outruns game selection with a special emphasis on pentration for improving your performance. Secondarily, a well designed betting system will have a big impact on both your EV and your longevity.

    I continue to have the opinion that beating the casinos in a long term venture is about 25% technical and 75% protocols and judgements.

    Wishing you good variance.......
    Last edited by Stealth; 12-10-2018 at 09:22 AM.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  3. #3
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    The "best count" is a vague question. Most will say for a shoe game BC is most important and advise a simple ace reckoned count like Hilo. A computer would suggest otherwise, but we play in a casino and are not computers. My answer to the best count would depend on your counting skill level. Most have just rudimentary counting skills so Hilo would still be the best count for them. If you have more advanced counting skills like being able to side count and/or keeping a multi-level count with ease, speed and accuracy then a ace neutral count and/or multi-level count would be your best count. Debates about whether the extra effort is worth it or not would be worth taking into account, but if you are skilled enough the advanced counting techniques are effortless, which renders the extra effort issue moot.

    For a beginner or recreational player there are much better things to focus on than what count you use. Once you master all the non-counting parts of the game then you might consider addressing the what count is best for me issue.

  4. #4
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    Is there a specifies counts for Ace reckoning

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbest1966 View Post
    Is there a specifies counts for Ace reckoning
    Very poor English renders the question ambiguous. A count is ace reckoned if the ace is counted in the main count. If the ace is side counted instead of being counted in the main count it is an ace neutral count. Ace neutral counts' PE are much higher because for most plays the ace is neutral or acts as a low card. But the larger your spread the more BC influences results and the more decks used the less important PE becomes. On shoe games large spreads are tolerated favoring a high BC, and more decks are used diminishing the importance of PE. That is why many prefer an ace reckoned count for shoe games. They tend to have a high BC and the hit to PE is not as costly as in pitch games. A multi-level count tends to increase betting accuracy a lot without a lot of gain in BC.

  6. #6


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    If you're asking purely based on "power" for shoe games, without consideration for practicality (in which personal ability is also a factor), then betting correlation is king. In which case Halves or RPC are probably the best options.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by bobby123 View Post
    Most of my local games are 6d or 8d. The best I can find is a 2d game about 2.5hr drive away one way, so it’s not an option most of the time.

    Anyways, I am just curious what is the general consensus on what the best card counting method is for 6-8d games?

    I have hi-lo down pat. I will have no problem going to a more advanced count if it is better than hi-lo for these 6-8d games. Looking forward to hearing opinions.

    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    As an overarching thought, if you are proficient at a count, nothing outruns game selection with a special emphasis on pentration for improving your performance. Secondarily, a well designed betting system will have a big impact on both your EV and your longevity.

    I continue to have the opinion that beating the casinos in a long term venture is about 25% technical and 75% protocols and judgements.

    Wishing you good variance.......
    bobby123, you are not going to get any better advice than what you received in post #2, especially the part I quoted.

  8. #8


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    Thanks for the input. Do many people still use the halves count today or is it less popular due to difficulty?

  9. #9


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    Thanks everyone who responded with advice and opinions, I appreciate it!

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by bobby123 View Post
    Thanks for the input. Do many people still use the halves count today or is it less popular due to difficulty?
    With practise you can be very fast with it still. I'm clearly faster with halves now than I was with hi lo before I switched . Counted down a deck in 10 seconds a few times in a row today (dealt in pairs). Know of multiple members on here who use it

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by CountinCanadian View Post
    With practise you can be very fast with it still. I'm clearly faster with halves now than I was with hi lo before I switched . Counted down a deck in 10 seconds a few times in a row today (dealt in pairs). Know of multiple members on here who use it
    Thanks again, I am going to do more research in it. Can you tell me some more things you find superior in the Halves count over something simple like hi lo?

    Also, i see you’re from Canada. What part? I’m in the Toronto area.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Yes. This is what I call an ace compromise count. it reckons the ace at half the value of the T so it gets much of the lost playing efficiency back for an ace reckoned count compared to an ace neutral count. The multi-level aspect makes for more accurate betting even if the half reckoned ace gives up some BC. But halves actually increases BC while half reckoning the ace plus you get increased betting accuracy.
    Three, what the hell are you talking about. Halves is not an ace compromise count. Both the ten and ace are counted as minus 1 in the halves count. You must have the halves count confused with some other count like maybe Zen.
    https://www.qfit.com/cardcounting/Wong-Halves/

  13. #13


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    [QUOTE=bobby123;261696

    Also, i see you’re from Canada. What part? I’m in the Toronto area.[/QUOTE]

    I’ve heard of it.

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