Anyone take out a loan for Blackjack?

[Midwest Player]

I'm in the no mortgage camp. When I was little, I told my parents I never wanted debt; no car payments, no mortgage, none of it. They told me I'd change my mine on the mortgage. I haven't. I don't have a house or anything fancy, but at least I have no debt, and that makes me happy . Maybe someday I'll win enough blackjacks to pay for a house.

There is nothing wrong with debt especially a mortgage. Most folks will never be ever to afford a house if they didn't have a mortgage. I'm kind of like you and don't like any debt, but you need debt to have a good credit rating. I do hope you use a credit card and pay it off each month to have a good credit rating. A good credit rating will get you a higher insurance score and lower rates on your insurance.

[Bubbles]

There is nothing wrong with debt especially a mortgage. Most folks will never be ever to afford a house if they didn't have a mortgage. I'm kind of like you and don't like any debt, but you need debt to have a good credit rating. I do hope you use a credit card and pay it off each month to have a good credit rating. A good credit rating will get you a higher insurance score and lower rates on your insurance.

Yes, I AP some credit cards. If you have a mortgage, you end up paying two or more times what your house is worth. A 200k house with a 5% 30 year mortgage costs 386.5k, nearly double what it would have cost to pay cash. No thanks. I'm never getting a mortgage unless it's somehow +EV. I've yet to run into that situation.

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[blue_phantom]

Yes, I AP some credit cards. If you have a mortgage, you end up paying two or more times what your house is worth. A 200k house with a 5% 30 year mortgage costs 386.5k, nearly double what it would have cost to pay cash. No thanks. I'm never getting a mortgage unless it's somehow +EV. I've yet to run into that situation.

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It doesn’t work like that. There’s time value of money to the full cash payment you make.

And I’ll give you an example. Buying a 1m house when you’ve only got 200k for down payment. Assuming your interest rate is 5%a year and your rental yield is 6% there’s your +ev.
An even better example, you have 1m but you still took out a mortgage at 5% giving them 200k down payment. You are left with 800k cash that you can generate maybe 100%return on bj a year , or maybe you can just use it to buy AT&T stocks which give you 6%dividend yield now. Again, + ev, better to borrow even when you don’t need to. No such options if you paid the house in full. Despite paying interests you are gonna end up richer than not borrowing.
Of course, downside risks are larger too when you use leverage . Still, a good use of leverage is pretty much the only way to get really rich...... something the rich knows.

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[blue_phantom]

Depends on your financial condition, borrowing against your house or stock holdings isn’t necessarily a bad idea.

If you have a million net worth for example and wants to direct 200k towards a bj bankroll. Your net worth being a combination of real estate and stock holdings. What do you do? liquidate everything and count up cash for bj? or more simply, borrow against your assets at low rates and count on your stocks and property to continue appreciating.

That being said , my locale interest rates are somewhat lower than American rates.

Borrowing against credit cards or basically other forms of unsecured high interest loans is NO. if you can’t work out the math or risk on why that’s a bad idea you don’t deserve to be a BJ AP.

The only AP appropriate for credit cards is for miles and points, taking the biggest expense out of my bj trips. I never paid them a cent of interest.


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[Bubbles]

I still don't feel comfortable doing it. Too much headache. I don't want a mortgage and I won't get one.

[cyz122409]

Gambling for 99% of the people outthere should only be recreational purpose only. You should only play the game with disposable income, money that you put aside. My inital BR come from doing uber on the weekend, after my dayjob, and start cutting expenses you dont need, like eating out.


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[Freightman]

Gambling for 99% of the people outthere should only be recreational purpose only. You should only play the game with disposable income, money that you put aside. My inital BR come from doing uber on the weekend, after my dayjob, and start cutting expenses you dont need, like eating out.


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Which brings up another interesting point.

Most people can afford whatever they want - provided they’re prepared to do without something else.

[Stealth]

So, if you think borrowing money is a good idea consider the below chart.

First we spread the standard deviation for a game of HiLO Full index 6d Hat DAS 75% penetration with a 1-12 ramp over a distribution of rounds until we achieve N0 at 2 SD. As you can see, we overcome 2 SD at the end of the chart. AND IT ASSUMES YOU ARE PLAYING LIKE A COMPUTER!

Then we assume we borrow $75,000 (a normal bankroll is less than 1% RoR) for 12 months at 6% interest and monthly payments of $6,455.

Then we develop two lines of cash flow, one assuming we are operating at -1 SD and making the loan payments and the other assuming the same at -2SD. Both standard deviations were adjusted by our positive cumulative EV.

You can see where cash flow goes negative in the -2 SD case and we are out of business! Also note the remaining cash at the end of the ride.

Before making such a decision, do your own “down side” analysis and be prepared for the ride that may come.

Best of Luck

								N0										N0 @ 2SD
			Rounds-->	500	12,183	23,867	35,550	47,234	58,917	70,601	82,284	93,968	105,651	117,335	129,018	140,701	152,385	164,068
Loan			1 SD	(2,839)	(7,156)	(5,205)	(1,819)	2,319	6,941	11,909	17,138	22,575	28,182	33,931	39,802	45,778	51,847	57,998
$75,000	6.00%		2 SD	(6,031)	(22,913)	(27,258)	(28,735)	(28,705)	(27,708)	(26,021)	(23,810)	(21,184)	(18,218)	(14,967)	(11,472)	(7,767)	(3,877)	177
Interest$	$4,500
			Loan Payment	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	0	0	0
	75,000		-1SD Cash Flow	72,161	54,934	50,430	47,361	45,044	43,212	41,724	40,498	39,480	38,632	37,926	37,342	43,319	49,387	55,538
	75,000		-2SD Cash Flow	62,514	39,177	28,377	20,445	14,020	8,562	3,794	(450)	(4,279)	(7,767)	(10,971)	(13,932)	(10,227)	(6,337)	(2,283)
			Estimated Table Hours @100HPH	5	122	239	356	472	589	706	823	940	1,057	1,173	1,290	1,407	1,524	1,641

[Midwest Player]

So, if you think borrowing money is a good idea consider the below chart.

First we spread the standard deviation for a game of HiLO Full index 6d Hat DAS 75% penetration with a 1-12 ramp over a distribution of rounds until we achieve N0 at 2 SD. As you can see, we overcome 2 SD at the end of the chart. AND IT ASSUMES YOU ARE PLAYING LIKE A COMPUTER!

Then we assume we borrow $75,000 (a normal bankroll is less than 1% RoR) for 12 months at 6% interest and monthly payments of $6,455.

Then we develop two lines of cash flow, one assuming we are operating at -1 SD and making the loan payments and the other assuming the same at -2SD. Both standard deviations were adjusted by our positive cumulative EV.

You can see where cash flow goes negative in the -2 SD case and we are out of business! Also note the remaining cash at the end of the ride.

Before making such a decision, do your own “down side” analysis and be prepared for the ride that may come.

Best of Luck

								N0										N0 @ 2SD
			Rounds-->	500	12,183	23,867	35,550	47,234	58,917	70,601	82,284	93,968	105,651	117,335	129,018	140,701	152,385	164,068
Loan			1 SD	(2,839)	(7,156)	(5,205)	(1,819)	2,319	6,941	11,909	17,138	22,575	28,182	33,931	39,802	45,778	51,847	57,998
$75,000	6.00%		2 SD	(6,031)	(22,913)	(27,258)	(28,735)	(28,705)	(27,708)	(26,021)	(23,810)	(21,184)	(18,218)	(14,967)	(11,472)	(7,767)	(3,877)	177
Interest$	$4,500
			Loan Payment	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	(6,455)	0	0	0
	75,000		-1SD Cash Flow	72,161	54,934	50,430	47,361	45,044	43,212	41,724	40,498	39,480	38,632	37,926	37,342	43,319	49,387	55,538
	75,000		-2SD Cash Flow	62,514	39,177	28,377	20,445	14,020	8,562	3,794	(450)	(4,279)	(7,767)	(10,971)	(13,932)	(10,227)	(6,337)	(2,283)
			Estimated Table Hours @100HPH	5	122	239	356	472	589	706	823	940	1,057	1,173	1,290	1,407	1,524	1,641

Nice chart, but I wouldn't take a loan like you presented. I would instead establish a line of credit and only use as much as I needed. Also with a line of credit I believe you can just make interest payments if you want.

Many years ago (like 30 years) I established an unsecured line of credit for $12,000 and back then $12,000 was considered a good sum of money. I didn't really need it for anything, but wanted to have it in case I needed money. The time to ask for money is when you don't need it. I used it a few times and always paid it back in a timely manner. Yeah, it probably cost me a few bucks, but was worth it to establish good credit and to have the peace of mind of having money at my finger tips if ever needed.

This line of credit was free for many years but eventually the bank decided to charge an annual fee of something like $25 a year and that was when I decided to close it out. A line of credit will have much lower rates than credit cards. Now fast forward 30 years and my son needs a new roof on his house. I told him to skip a secured line of credit and just get an unsecured line. Of course interest rates will be a little higher with an unsecured line, but you never have to worry about them foreclosing on your house. Again this worked out well for him.
https://www.debt.org/credit/lines/

[Joe Mama]

I've seen folks take out markers at the table many times. Markers are interest free loans (credit lines). I have taken out markers many times when VP was quite lucrative for me.

[angle_sh00ter]

A 12 month loan with fixed monthly repayments sounds like the worst of both worlds.

Id prefer to just take hail mary shots. At least if you run above expectation early on you avoid the ongoing vig.

[angle_sh00ter]

I've seen folks take out markers at the table many times. Markers are interest free loans (credit lines). I have taken out markers many times when VP was quite lucrative for me.

Except you have to play where u take the marker and they know who you are. They are a good option for a gambler (if they must gamble) probably not ideal for an AP

[Joe Mama]

Except you have to play where u take the marker and they know who you are. They are a good option for a gambler (if they must gamble) probably not ideal for an AP

An AP VP player can only make money by giving up their identity through a player's card.