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Thread: Anyone take out a loan for Blackjack?

  1. #14


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    In mid 2000's i made nearly six figures gambling so I have experience and discipline I think? I spent down most of it and paid off bills. Got divorced later cost me close to what I made gambling. I make good money, I just have it tied up in other stuff. I will probably end up playing more when I actually have the funds to lose. I know well the big swings you take when playing bigger stakes. It sounds crazy taking out a loan to gamble with, but businesses do it all the time investing in new technology or equipment.

  2. #15


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    If you're playing a winning game, you will make money in the long run, and you should be able to predict how much to help you justify whatever financing you use. HOWEVER, you can't predict WHEN you'll make money which makes taking out a loan a very risky proposition to me. Suppose you play for a year and break even or even lose? How would you make the payments?

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    Mathmatecially, if you include the cost of the loan (interest 5-7% or much more is credit cards) in the calculation for your EV you will find your path to success is almost non-existent.
    There are lots of reasons not to finance yourself with a loan, but I don't think the cost of interest is one of them.

    If blackjack can't give you a return of more than 7% / year you're doing something wrong or not putting in the hours. Moreover, if you can ONLY make 7%/year playing, you're better off investing in something else and playing the nickel tables for recreation.

  4. #17


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    It’s nice to sleep at night. Even the best of us can suffer through absolutely brutal variance. Despite all of my skills, ability to see nuances etc., 2 of my last 3 trips resulted in huge losses. Didn’t lose any sleep over it, though I was a bit miffed. That’s the security of a strong bankroll. Just think of the wife’s reaction if you lost big bucks, after your assurances of paying back the line of credit secured by your house.

    On the plus side, the 4th trip in the sequence was an absolute rock crusher, including 1 session coming close to government reporting guidelines - a good story there.

  5. #18


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    You need to consider your wife or girlfriend. A lot of women dislike anything more than occasional recreational gambling as they see it as a form of insecurity, especially in a relationship. You can win for a while, which in some cases is only just tolerated, but the first loss will see you on the couch. So to consider borrowing money for this venture can be both financially and personally destructive.
    Casino Enemy No.1

  6. #19
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    It’s nice to sleep at night.
    Yes. Not only nice, but helps avoid stupid, desperate decisions.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Yes. Not only nice, but helps avoid stupid, desperate decisions.
    Indeed. It’s good to have the wife on your side. She has faith in my abilities, based on a proven history. She knows that our recent Eastern Canada trip for a family function was paid for through card play. She knows that an uocoming Mexico trip, for the same purpose, was paid for through card play, etc etc etc.

    Though I don’t tell her the numbers (The house vig would be greater if she knew ), she knew the numbers were bad. Her only comment was - oh dear.

  8. #21
    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    Taking a loan out to have a bankroll is just asking for bad variance. How will you pay the loan off if you lose all of it? If it's easy to pay off, skip the loan and consider your bankroll replenishable. If it will be hard to pay off, stop, don't pass go, don't do it, it's a bad idea.

    The closest to a loan I've done is after a bad loss a close friend handed me some cash. I didn't need a loan, but he knew having enough cash on me to sit at the tables and play was important. It was more convenient for both of us than a trip to the bank where he'd be depositing and I'd be withdrawing. It was just a simple, "you could use this. Next time you see me give it back." I've done similar things for them in the past. The major difference is these were just cash loans, not money. It's one thing to need cash and have sufficient funds and another to not have funds entirely.

    I'm in the no mortgage camp. When I was little, I told my parents I never wanted debt; no car payments, no mortgage, none of it. They told me I'd change my mine on the mortgage. I haven't. I don't have a house or anything fancy, but at least I have no debt, and that makes me happy . Maybe someday I'll win enough blackjacks to pay for a house.

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  9. #22


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    @bubbles what’s wrong with debt?
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  10. #23
    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    @bubbles what’s wrong with debt?
    I feel it looming over my head. It's an unsettling feeling. I don't like it and I get this compulsion to get it paid off as quickly as possible.

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  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by shake View Post
    Just curious if anyone has taken a loan or borrowed money to advance their AP career.
    Lol, I considered it, especially when I was in that awkward growth stage of having a red chip bankroll and wanting to play at the green chip level. It takes patience to be a successful AP, and that six months taught me patience.

    I personally know two successful APs who took money from retirement for their initial bankroll, and I pulled from savings.

    From a practical standpoint, the only way this would have a chance of +EV is if you found someone to invest in you.

    Also from a practical standpoint, there are more ways to raise a bankroll than playing blackjack. Consider a gig job like fiver or Uber, sell your stuff, cancel the cable, etc. Live like a miser and save.

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    I feel it looming over my head. It's an unsettling feeling. I don't like it and I get this compulsion to get it paid off as quickly as possible.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Which brings up a point. There is gooD debt, and there is bad debt. Bad debt is a car loan, which is a depreciating asset. Good debt is a mortgage, which is an appreciating asset. I think you get the point.

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    There are lots of reasons not to finance yourself with a loan, but I don't think the cost of interest is one of them.

    If blackjack can't give you a return of more than 7% / year you're doing something wrong or not putting in the hours. Moreover, if you can ONLY make 7%/year playing, you're better off investing in something else and playing the nickel tables for recreation.
    I think years ago MathProf made a post over on BJ21 on how blackjack was a better investment than the stock market. It was an interesting post, but I'm not going to try and find it with BJ21's terrible search function.

    Anyway, I'm wondering how to figure your blackjack return percent per year. It would seem you would need to divide your win by your bankroll. However, what if you don't know how much your bankroll is. In my case I really don't know what my blackjack bankroll is. If I need some money, I just get some from the bank. If I have too much money laying around the house, I put some in the bank. I could easily make a six figure bankroll, but I would never risk that much on blackjack. I also don't need a large bankroll because I just play mostly at the red chip level.

    Anyway, in the last two years my cumulative for the year was never in the red at anytime during the year. I don't think I ever took more than $7,000 with me on any blackjack trip, and I don't think I ever had more than $3,000 invested in the game on any given trip. Total losses for each year were only a little over $3,000 and net win for each year exceeded the 5 figure mark. Okay, what is my blackjack return per year? Do I make up some out of the air bankroll number? How would I figure my return on blackjack?

    PS. These last two years were kind of exceptional and are not the norm. I'm usually in the red at some point during the year, but I don't think I had to make a bank withdrawal since 2014 for blackjack. I always had enough cash on hand and only made bank deposits.
    Last edited by Midwest Player; 11-26-2018 at 09:02 PM.

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