Anyone take out a loan for Blackjack?

[Fringe]

I'll bite. I think it can be properly managed if you have the right mindset.

Agreed. Glad someone took the plunge.

[Freightman]

Agreed. Glad someone took the plunge.

I think we’ve already covered that, as well as the fact that the OP dies not have the proper mindset.

[Fringe]

Glad it's all wrapped up for you buddy!

[Old, but not dead]

I made my second to last BJ trip 20 years ago when I got married in Lake Tahoe. I made enough on that trip to cover expenses for my wedding with a tidy profit, since I got zero heat as the groom just having fun on the days before his wedding. I made one last trip to Reno when my wife was pregnant with our daughter. We got upgraded to a suite no charge since the desk clerk was appreciative of my wife's pregnant state. After that my roll went into the down payment, and now 18 years later I finally paid off the mortgage and am ready to start again. I am going to start slowly and rebuild my roll, without borrowing or risking my retirement savings or kids University fund. I am putting away $1000 a month, and will start my return with a trip to Wendover this summer on the recommendation of Mid-West player. Single deck, great rules, very low expenses. Looks like Wendover could be a way for someone with a limited roll to gain experience and build their bank without too large of a ROR. Much better than taking loans in my opinion. With Wendover's rules, flat betting and just using some of the index plays and Wonging to the bathroom on bad counts will still make money. Add a small spread and you can bring in a reasonable hourly rate even for red chip bets.

[Midwest Player]

I am putting away $1000 a month, and will start my return with a trip to Wendover this summer on the recommendation of Mid-West player. Single deck, great rules, very low expenses. Looks like Wendover could be a way for someone with a limited roll to gain experience and build their bank without too large of a ROR. Much better than taking loans in my opinion. With Wendover's rules, flat betting and just using some of the index plays and Wonging to the bathroom on bad counts will still make money. Add a small spread and you can bring in a reasonable hourly rate even for red chip bets.

Wendover looks like a great rose garden on paper. However, I have struggled winning there myself. I had my biggest lifetime losing trip in Wendover. For many years my lifetime Wendover play was in the red (however, my lifetime Wendover play is now in the black). I wrote many trip reports trying to figure this out. I think if you are not use to single deck you will find it a different kind of beast.

On a typical Wendover trip I usually take 6 or 7 thousand with me. I never needed more than 4 thousand. Weekends are very crowded and playing conditions suck then. They do open all the tables on weekends, but it is still crowded. I like week days the best and on a weekday day you will only find one $25 min table open. A couple $10 min tables and mostly $5 min tables. They do even have a $3 min table that is usually always crowded.

Since I always take the charter flight I always play rated. I read a trip report on a Wendover backoff not too long ago because the guy was taking bathroom breaks in negative counts. I think playing unrated in Wendover is a red flag, but who knows.

Sometimes in Wendover the $10 min table might be the better choice than the $25 min table. I always pick the $10 min table if it has less players than the $25 min table. In Wendover, I do spread more playing a red chip table than a green chip table.

If you go hope you do a trip report.

[LVBear584]

I offer a respectfully opposing view to Mr. MWP's characterization of Wendover on weekends. For well over a decade, I played Wendover almost exclusively on Thursday evenings through Sunday afternoons (Thursday afternoon flight LAS-SLC, and Sunday evening flight home, SLC to LAS), with little trouble finding playable conditions at any time, especially when Montego Bay had a $50 minimum table on swing shift (long gone). My spread for the last several years was table minimum to table maximum. As does MWP, I sometimes played the red-chip tables, but only if I absolutely had no other reasonable choice. However, I never bet less than green. Note that most of the red-chip tables are only $500 maximum, while the $25 tables at Montego Bay and Peppermill are $1000 maximum -- Rainbow varies them between $500 and $1000.

Unless your address of record is in Utah, it's important to have a stated, believable reason for being there if you aren't there on a junket, especially if you plan to visit often enough to become a somewhat familiar face.

A few years ago, I was finally told to never return, Wendover was a friendly, clean, safe, enjoyable and highly profitable venue right up until the polite and classy backoff. I have not returned since, but friends report it hasn't changed much, and not at all for the worse. I am grateful they let me play for so long and for the money I extracted from the place. I still miss Wendover, as does my retirement fund. In my opinion, if played correctly, Wendover is far and away better than any other blackjack venue in the USA or Canada.

[refinery]

I offer a respectfully opposing view to Mr. MWP's characterization of Wendover on weekends. For well over a decade, I played Wendover almost exclusively on Thursday evenings through Sunday afternoons (Thursday afternoon flight LAS-SLC, and Sunday evening flight home, SLC to LAS), with little trouble finding playable conditions at any time, especially when Montego Bay had a $50 minimum table on swing shift (long gone). My spread for the last several years was table minimum to table maximum. As does MWP, I sometimes played the red-chip tables, but only if I absolutely had no other reasonable choice. However, I never bet less than green. Note that most of the red-chip tables are only $500 maximum, while the $25 tables at Montego Bay and Peppermill are $1000 maximum -- Rainbow varies them between $500 and $1000.

Unless your address of record is in Utah, it's important to have a stated, believable reason for being there if you aren't there on a junket, especially if you plan to visit often enough to become a somewhat familiar face.

A few years ago, I was finally told to never return, Wendover was a friendly, clean, safe, enjoyable and highly profitable venue right up until the polite and classy backoff. I have not returned since, but friends report it hasn't changed much, and not at all for the worse. I am grateful they let me play for so long and for the money I extracted from the place. I still miss Wendover, as does my retirement fund. In my opinion, if played correctly, Wendover is far and away better than any other blackjack venue in the USA or Canada.

This is how you write a post that provides a wealth of information without killing a game. Well done.

[21forme]

This is how you write a post that provides a wealth of information without killing a game. Well done.

+1.

That's the difference between a pro and someone who obsesses about short term results.

[Midwest Player]

My spread for the last several years was table minimum to table maximum. As does MWP, I sometimes played the red-chip tables, but only if I absolutely had no other reasonable choice. However, I never bet less than green. Note that most of the red-chip tables are only $500 maximum, while the $25 tables at Montego Bay and Peppermill are $1000 maximum -- Rainbow varies them between $500 and $1000.

Are you trying to give Don S a heart attack? You must have some magic secret to get away with a 1:40 spread on single deck. I have read trip reports where backoffs have occurred with just a 2:1 spread in Wendover.

So many folks have mentioned they have been backed off in Wendover, and this includes both private emails I have received and trip reports on BJ21. I think bigplayer once mentioned he got back offed by phone in Wendover. I'm not the only one who has got their clock cleaned in Wendover. I remember Hockey Dad mentioning a terrible trip there.

[hitthat16]

Wendover used to roll out the red carpet for me. I never paid a dime for anything there as it was all RFB. Then once upon a time my bankroll could afford green to black chip action. On the third trip of playing quarters there the once smiling faces turned into the look Daenerys Targaryen had right before torching Kings Landing. I was rudely told to never return and nearly had a back room experience.

Just tread lightly. Spread politely as you don’t need a big spread at all. Play the royal match while the pit is watching for cheap cover (seriously, with a house edge of about 3.7% it won’t cost much to throw a quarter at it occasionally). Have fun there. I miss it.

[Midwest Player]

Wendover used to roll out the red carpet for me. I never paid a dime for anything there as it was all RFB. Then once upon a time my bankroll could afford green to black chip action. On the third trip of playing quarters there the once smiling faces turned into the look Daenerys Targaryen had right before torching Kings Landing. I was rudely told to never return and nearly had a back room experience.

Just tread lightly. Spread politely as you don’t need a big spread at all. Play the royal match while the pit is watching for cheap cover (seriously, with a house edge of about 3.7% it won’t cost much to throw a quarter at it occasionally). Have fun there. I miss it.

I'm curious as to what kind of green chip spread you were using when you finally got your back off. Did they trespass you or just say no more blackjack? About half my play in Wendover is at green chip tables and half at red chip tables. It all depends on the conditions I will find.

PS. How long were your blackjack sessions before you would move on to the next casino?

[hitthat16]

Looking back, I was definitely a bit too aggressive with them. I played a 1-8 spread disguised as a 1-4 in green/black. I never played the side bet, and I was also rated. I believe they just looked at my lifetime results and saw I’ve been using the town as a candy store for years.

I did try to keep sessions short, but when the stores are owned by the same people it tends not to matter that much.

I was unceremoniously 86’d. They tried to get me in the back room and they tried to photograph me. I refused and when they realized I knew the law they let me go. I suspect they attempted to send me certified mail notifying me I was trespassed, but lucky for me I had changed addresses from the one I had on file. I haven’t been back to those three stores since. I have managed to sneak a couple of trips to the “other guys” and so far without being found out.

[Midwest Player]

Looking back, I was definitely a bit too aggressive with them. I played a 1-8 spread disguised as a 1-4 in green/black. I never played the side bet, and I was also rated. I believe they just looked at my lifetime results and saw I’ve been using the town as a candy store for years.

I did try to keep sessions short, but when the stores are owned by the same people it tends not to matter that much.

I was unceremoniously 86’d. They tried to get me in the back room and they tried to photograph me. I refused and when they realized I knew the law they let me go. I suspect they attempted to send me certified mail notifying me I was trespassed, but lucky for me I had changed addresses from the one I had on file. I haven’t been back to those three stores since. I have managed to sneak a couple of trips to the “other guys” and so far without being found out.

Thanks, knowing what is tolerated or not always helps.