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Thread: Is using level 2 count in shoe game an overkill

  1. #14
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    For example, show me where the systems diverge when they are playing shoes game, 25-500$, 6 deck.
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  2. #15
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    For convenience, you can install the hi-lo system in the CVBJ , and at this moment consider yourself using the halves. Understand? ))
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Your logic is flawed. It suggests equal or very similar advantage or disadvantage, thus resulting, after rounding, the same average bet. The proper logic is that halves identifies marginal advantage or disadvantage better, thus resulting in minimum bets, or multi unit bets differing from hi lo, when it is appropriate to do so.
    Exactly. Gram fails to see that the same situation would be bet more accurately most of the time with Halves rather than Hilo. So while this statement may be true for when they straddle the round bet:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    Three, in real life, when one system says to bet $ 105 ( Halves ) and another system says to bet $ 95 ( Hi Lo)- in the end, everyone puts the same 100 $ !!! Therefore do not believe computer research !
    Just as often they are rounded to different bets or assess advantage very differently. Halves may be in the forth advantage bin when Hilo is in the first advantage bin. Or halves may be making a disadvantage bet while Hilo is making a ramped up advantage bet. The gain for Halves over Hilo is from the increased accuracy of betting a lot more than from the fact that you can bet more with the same RoR when you have the same advantage. Too many people don't understand that BC is far different from betting accuracy. Betting accuracy has to do with the SD and range of actual advantage around a betting bin's advantage estimate. BC has to do with how well your count tags correlate to the full deck betting EoRs for all the ranks. These are two entirely different things that are loosely correlated.

    Most level 2 counters have used both level 1 and level 2 counts. They can make a comparison and most choose to stick with their level 2 count. A career level 1 counter can't make a comparison from experience so often they can't even conceive of the difference. They can sim it but casino play is a totally different animal than computer play. You need to master both and play both long enough after mastering them to be able to speak from experience rather than speculation.

  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    For convenience, you can install the hi-lo system in the CVBJ , and at this moment consider yourself using the halves. Understand? ))
    Nope

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    For example, show me where the systems diverge when they are playing shoes game, 25-500$, 6 deck.

    The systems are remarkably similar. What they do differently is the calculation of EOR’s. Surely, you can see that.

    https://youtu.be/KM2K7sV-K74

  6. #19
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Nope
    Three, translate please for him ))
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  7. #20


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    Is this what they call "Tempest in a Tea pot"?

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Is this what they call "Tempest in a Tea pot"?
    Not quite. Could easily become a collision of opinion
    regardless of outcome, should be entertain8ng and informative.

  9. #22
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I played enough at the table with Zenfighter ( use Halves ) and with my team (use double Halves). Ultimately, the one who sees better won more. ( ST ) . And it was me, with my Hi Lo.
    Last edited by Gramazeka; 11-19-2018 at 09:44 AM.
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    Three, translate please for him ))
    He is saying you can't sim Hilo and act like you are simming Halves. Halves bets a whole lot more accurately than Hilo. BC is not betting accuracy. You can get a feel for how accurately a system is by keeping spread, BR, RoR and everything else constant and look at what each systems optimal bets are as recommended by the sim while keeping everything except optimal bet constant. You will see the gain for the more powerful approach as the EV gain. The more accurate system is betting higher bets with the same advantage. That is because more accuracy means less variance which would produce a higher optimal bet. Playing gain doesn't factor in much in shoe games but has a small influence on optimal bets. Almost all of the difference in optimal bets will be from increased betting accuracy in shoe games if the same underplays are used for both systems. I know what Freighter does and what he does is much stronger than generic Halves. He gathers some extra info and uses it for gain both more EV and in other areas of results. Lowering variance while increasing certainty and EV is very powerful. It increases SCORE by both increasing the numerator and decreasing the denominator. It also increases CE. That is more powerful than just increasing the numerator of SCORE (increasing EV). Hilo gets the money but gets less money while taking a much longer period of time to reach a high degree of certainty. I hate big negative swings. They come with big positive swings and the combination causes huge buy-ins and too large of wins. This make you a quick target for the counter catching team. Smaller buy-ins required and lower swings and lower losses and more frequent but smaller wins to make more money in the same number of rounds while reaching certainty in the least number of rounds keeps heat low and profits high. That is worth it in my book. Many just damn the variance and fire away knowing their system will require huge buy-ins and have massive wins and losses while taking a very high number of rounds to reach certainty as the only option. It is one way to do it but I don't think it is the best way. But that is just my perspective.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    I played enough at the table with Zenfighter ( use Halves ) and with my team (use double Halves). Ultimately, the one who sees better won more. ( ST ) . And it was me, with my Hi Lo.
    Well shuffle tracking is a different matter. That opportunity has more or less gone the way of the dinosaur around here.

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    I played enough at the table with Zenfighter ( use Halves ) and with my team (use double Halves). Ultimately, the one who sees better won more. ( ST ) . And it was me, with my Hi Lo.
    How exciting. Sincerest apologies for not being a mind reader. I should have known that shuffle track8ng wa# part of 5he equation.

  13. #26
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    I'm not about that. I got distracted. Homework for you- Configure the HiLo system in CVBJ. Adjust the optimal bets for Hi Lo. Start playing using the bug show. You at the same time keep the counting with Halves. How often will the systems disperse?
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

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