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Thread: Is using level 2 count in shoe game an overkill

  1. #53
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Snyder was wrong too often for me.
    Must admit- Snyder was wrong in his calculations to using old software, But he was never mistaken in the presentation of new concepts on the black jack. And they were his diamond !
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  2. #54


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    As much as I’m able.....heads up for speed, speed, fast greasy speed.

    https://youtu.be/N0GdQyIm7DU

    Of course, heads up that exposes one to all kinds of scrutiny, ratholing also being a non starter. Also, a good act goes a long way.

    I’d like to thank the academy, best supporting critters, and my fans from surveillance.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    Must admit- Snyder was wrong in his calculations to using old software, But he was never mistaken in the presentation of new concepts on the black jack. And they were his diamond !
    What about Snyder's Folly, the weak version of halves (true edge) that compresses the data field so you must take things to a couple of decimals to get the same accuracy for your decisions. He should have known that compressing the data field would lead to less accuracy. You want to stretch out the data so you can make finer observations for decisions. I don't think Snyder ever recommended doubles halves which would stretch out rather than compress the data. That would have been a step in the right direction rather than the wrong direction. And truncating TCs. I never got what he thought was gained there. TC 0 bin has twice the range of all the other bins. And he combines the two highest frequency bins. That just limits what you can do and causes you to be more inaccurate on the vast majority of play.
    Last edited by Three; 11-20-2018 at 02:32 PM.

  4. #56
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Maybe Hi Lo lite, not Halves ?
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    Maybe Hi Lo lite, not Halves ?
    The list spanned many of his contributions.

  6. #58
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    You must read BJA - "illustrious 18". Is that folly too ?
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    You must read BJA - "illustrious 18". Is that folly too ?
    I said Don was great. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth that you know I would never say? I have read Don's book many times. He states the I18 gets you the majority of the gain from all indices so that is where you should start learning indices. He never once said that is where you should end learning indices. Obviously it isn't. But eventually you get to a point of diminishing returns for the effort of learning indices. Yeah, that minuscule couple of minutes it takes to learn an index play. That tiny effort. Learn as many as you want. The ones that you will remember will be the ones you use often. That one it took a year to get the matchup with the TC required to make the deviation may be a bit fuzzy. LoL
    Last edited by Three; 11-20-2018 at 07:09 PM.

  8. #60


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    Yes, I agree with all of the above. And, you get extra credit for spelling "minuscule" correctly! :-)

    Damn, "occurrence" and "minuscule" both right in one day. You guys are starting to scare me!

    Don

  9. #61


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Yes, I agree with all of the above.
    Now I can have a nice holiday. I like it better when my parents don't argue.

  10. #62


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    He states the I18 gets you the majority of the gain from all indices so that is where you should start learning indices. He never once said that is where you should end learning indices.
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles, p60 BJA3
    Of course, the ramifications of this study are quite clear. If you are a practicing Hi-Lo player and have diligently committed to memory 150 to 200 index numbers, you may be interested to learn that for this particular game and style of play, you might as well throw 90% of your numbers away and keep just the "Illustrious 18." On the other hand, if you have just mastered true count and were about to embark upon your study of the index-number matrix, I may have saved you a good deal of work. Learn the plays in the chart and forget about the rest. You can trust me that you won't be missing much.
    All due respect to Don, this has always rubbed me the wrong way. I have never believed it is clear from BJA3 that the I18 is a starting point. To me at least, it's quite the opposite. I'm happy to be the fool here if need be but it's all there. The reader was probably saved a great deal of work. They won't be missing much!

    Elsewhere (eg message boards, and possibly even in BJA3 later in the text), Don has called it a starting point. But the implication in the text of the book is that the I18 is essentially all you need.

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    But the implication in the text of the book is that the I18 is essentially all you need.
    I didn't read it that way, but you aren't the only one that read it that way. Perhaps Don needs to find a way to sneak this info in without changing the page references in future editions of the book.

  12. #64
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    Other things people say aren't in the book are the gains, etc for using different counts. Don tried not to endorse a count but gave that information. After all they all work. You just have to do the math if you are interested in the answer. You can't expect Don to do everything for you. But he put the information in the book. You just have to reduce it to the form you desire. In this case a percentage increase for changing from on count to another. The math is simple and takes like 10 seconds on a calculator.

  13. #65


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    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    All due respect to Don, this has always rubbed me the wrong way. I have never believed it is clear from BJA3 that the I18 is a starting point. To me at least, it's quite the opposite. I'm happy to be the fool here if need be but it's all there. The reader was probably saved a great deal of work. They won't be missing much!

    Elsewhere (eg message boards, and possibly even in BJA3 later in the text), Don has called it a starting point. But the implication in the text of the book is that the I18 is essentially all you need.
    I understand why you were rubbed the wrong way, but I always thought that message was not written for me. I figured it was for the player who was not about to put in the work necessary to remember many more indices anyway. If I remember correctly, somewhere else in the book he states that he still uses all or almost all of the indices when he plays. There was a line about not being able to forget them or something to that effect. That was a clear signal to me that he still considered knowing the other indices worth it. I really kind of read the section you quoted as a "If the shoe fits" kind of statement.

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