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Thread: Hi opt 2 with ACE side count for double deck / hi-lo for a shoe game

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    Hi opt 2 with ACE side count for double deck / hi-lo for a shoe game

    How do you like this strategy usage?
    I am more inclined to play double deck whenever opportunity falls into me.
    ^^

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    How do YOU like this strategy?

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    As far I know, hi op 2 with ace side count yields the best EV, and it is not that hard to estimate how much the remaining deck is for DD.
    hi-lo is very easy to use, and has .97 BC so its good for the shoe game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    And ZEN will trump HiLo at 6D.
    F my life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Unless you are using a secondary count like 2-5/+1 v A/-2, you are better off with ZEN. You'll work less hard for same result.
    And ZEN will trump HiLo at 6D.
    can you explain better for me?
    Then should I use Zen count, sidecounting 7?

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    HO2 withOUT aces is better than HiLo, in six deck. So I'd stick with HO2, or better yet, yeah, go with Zen.
    Last edited by First Normal Form; 02-25-2013 at 08:21 AM.

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    I side-count Aces. but for shoe game, its too much work, so i would like to stay with hi-lo. By the way how the zen count without sidecounting gives better yield than hi-opt 2 with sidecounting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chang04133 View Post
    I side-count Aces. but for shoe game, its too much work, so i would like to stay with hi-lo.
    Yeah, but I'm saying that if you don't want to bother sidecounting aces in shoes because it's too much work, don't, and you'll still do the same or better than HiLo. I think you'll find learning two entirely different counts too much work, for no gain.


    Quote Originally Posted by chang04133 View Post
    By the way how the zen count without sidecounting gives better yield than hi-opt 2 with sidecounting?
    No, it's 5-10% worse. But you can add an ace side count to Zen for playing, and it will be almost (but not quite) as good as HO2.

    We bring up Zen because for no side count, it will beat both in shoes, HiLo in pitch, and get close to HO2 in pitch. Zen is considered to be fantastic for its flexibility and power across a wide range of conditions. This seems to be what you're looking for. And again, you can later add an ace side count to Zen for pitch games for that extra oomph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Totally unnecessary to add ASC, but a 7SC with bivaluate adjustment will add considerably more than the Ace.
    Only as unnecessary as any other ace side count (which I know you would say "yes, they are all unnecessary!").

    I've yet to see or show myself proof that a 7 side count would beat an Ace side count for Zen. Zen w/ Aces gives BC almost as good as RPC, PE almost as good as HO2, and a monstrous IC. Typical ace side counts give 5-8% improvement. I don't see how 7s could do any of that.

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    To avoid your confusion, First Normal, I already have quite mastered hi-lo counting (including the full-index), so it is not much a problem for me to utilize hi-lo for the shoe game.
    However, i think using hi-lo for double deck game is really losing so much EV compared to Hi-opt2 with ace sidecount, and since I am going to play 50~600 level and have to play only short secession.

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