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Thread: What constitutes full or part time play?

  1. #1


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    What constitutes full or part time play?

    I wonder what would be the definition of full time play and of part time play. For instance, someone like T3 may play a whole lot less but devote lots of time to read, enhance, research and other stuff and actually play (actual time at table) less than 15 hours a week. Another player might play 40 hours a week but spend no time in practice or research, so what defines a full time player?

    I consider myself a part time recreational player but was surprised to find that in 10 months this year, I have averaged about 34 hours a month sitting at BJ tables. Driving, flying, down time away on BJ trips is not included. I probably put in a 100 hours a month in BJ related time (mostly driving, flying and time away from home). This means I am spending about 134 hours a month on BJ related stuff (and that is not counting time spent at home on Forum or reading BJ stuff).

    That is almost equivalent to a full time job!

    How many hours do you actually sit at a BJ table each month? How many hours do you spend on BJ stuff outside of sitting at table (scouting, travelling, etc.) each month?

  2. #2
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    To me full time isn't about hours. It's about making the money you need to pay your bills from BJ. You can have back up income so you can get through the losing runs but you need to make enough in the long run to pay your bills.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    Full time in my opinion should be the equivalent of what full time is in any other job. 40 hours a week or more of actual blackjack play. The fact that someone can make a six figure salary playing only 10 hours a week is inconsequential........
    What about the fact that playing 40 hours a week in most areas will get you banned everywhere quickly? Most areas don't have enough casinos to allow for 40 hours a week of play with our getting unwanted attention. Often the situation is lose one casino and you lose all the casinos. But if you have no homelike I guess not having a place to call home can work for the traveling AP. That life is not for me.

  4. #4
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    Personally I find I make more money playing fewer hours a day. It is about rounds played not hours played. You can't find a 200 round per hour game when you are playing a crowded 50 or 60 round per hour game. The former gets rounds in 3 to 4 times faster. In other words you can sit and play 15 hours a day at a crowded table or you can get in more rounds selectively playing 4 or 5 hours per day that you carefully choose to play. I usually make the most in a day when I only play 5 hours or less. When I play more I often lose and miss the best playing opportunities. I started tracking why this was and it was about rounds played.

    I was playing a lot more rounds when I was playing less. Try to maximize rounds played or better yet quality rounds played. Don't obsess about time played. You aren't looking to play the first part of the shoe heads up and know when the count gets good you will be swarmed and not get in many quality rounds. It is a waste of time to play when you know this will happen. You are better off starting at a crowded table and clearing the table when the count gets good. If you start heads up play you want to play as fast as the dealer can deal to get in as many rounds as you can before you have to share the cards. Being able to control a table is an invaluable AP skill. I have changed the whole playing culture in areas my team frequents by working on the ploppies. They always used to just come in anytime with no regard to what other players thought. Now almost all of them are courteous enough to ask or just lammer up spots and wait for a fresh shoe.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I wonder what would be the definition of full time play and of part time play. For instance, someone like T3 may play a whole lot less but devote lots of time to read, enhance, research and other stuff and actually play (actual time at table) less than 15 hours a week. Another player might play 40 hours a week but spend no time in practice or research, so what defines a full time player?

    I consider myself a part time recreational player but was surprised to find that in 10 months this year, I have averaged about 34 hours a month sitting at BJ tables. Driving, flying, down time away on BJ trips is not included. I probably put in a 100 hours a month in BJ related time (mostly driving, flying and time away from home). This means I am spending about 134 hours a month on BJ related stuff (and that is not counting time spent at home on Forum or reading BJ stuff).

    That is almost equivalent to a full time job!

    How many hours do you actually sit at a BJ table each month? How many hours do you spend on BJ stuff outside of sitting at table (scouting, travelling, etc.) each month?
    Zee, in my opinion you play enough blackjack and devote enough time to it to be able to file your taxes as a business. Since you no longer have another full time job, I see no problem in filing your blackjack income on Sch C, the business form. Where the return asks for your occupation on Form 1040 sign it "Professional Blackjack Player" Of course, this is only my opinion, don't take it as legal advise. Heck, I bet 21forme would also say you qualify to file as a business.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    I see no problem in filing your blackjack income on Sch C,
    He's a tax evader, and doesn't pay taxes on his BJ winnings. The shoebox is his Swiss bank account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    ... When I play more I often lose and miss the best playing opportunities....
    say what???

    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    ...You aren't looking to play the first part of the shoe heads up and know when the count gets good you will be swarmed and not get in many quality rounds.....
    huh???...99.9% of the players are plops...not my experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    ...You are better off starting at a crowded table and clearing the table when the count gets good.....
    is this some IBS (Iritital Bowel Syndrome) strategy???

    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    ...I have changed the whole playing culture in areas my team frequents...
    so you lead a team now, too.....HAHJAHAHAHAHAHA...no offense, but that's the funniest thing I heard since dbs fixed demand theory

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    How many hours do you actually sit at a BJ table each month? How many hours do you spend on BJ stuff outside of sitting at table (scouting, travelling, etc.) each month?
    So far this year I have 246 hours of blackjack table play. Add to that driving time of almost six hours round trip plus time for packing and unpacking plus time devoted to hotel check in and check out. Longer trips can involve almost the whole day. I have played blackjack in every month of this year except for Jan. A lot of time is spent on various blackjack forums.

    I have not reached my goal for this year yet, but I'm less than $700 away. I have yet to have a 4 figure loss for this year so "I'm due." It does seem like I have a whopper of a loss at least once a year especially now since I won the last 5 times I played. It seems like the longer I win the harder I will fall. Also deer hunting season will soon be here and then I will be faced with crowded conditions again, not good.

    I don't know if I will be able to get anymore blackjack in this year. So much depends on the weather. I don't like driving in snow anymore.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    So far this year I have 246 hours of blackjack table play. Add to that driving time of almost six hours round trip plus time for packing and unpacking plus time devoted to hotel check in and check out. Longer trips can involve almost the whole day. I have played blackjack in every month of this year except for Jan. A lot of time is spent on various blackjack forums.

    I have not reached my goal for this year yet, but I'm less than $700 away. I have yet to have a 4 figure loss for this year so "I'm due." It does seem like I have a whopper of a loss at least once a year especially now since I won the last 5 times I played. It seems like the longer I win the harder I will fall. Also deer hunting season will soon be here and then I will be faced with crowded conditions again, not good.

    I don't know if I will be able to get anymore blackjack in this year. So much depends on the weather. I don't like driving in snow anymore.
    MWP
    The law of large numbers does not suggest that winning 5 in a row makes you due for a loss. It simply says that your results will get closer to expectation the larger the data pool becomes - or simply stop the current cycle staying a winner, and starting a new cycle which is actually non sensical.

    I average lunch about 1x per month with an AP friend, who will likely see this post. At the end of lunch, we flip a coin, and the loser buys. It has been my good fortune to have probably won 9x out of the last 10 lunches. It would be delightful if this trend were to continue, however, the reasoning in the paragraph above will tend to even out the results over an extended period of time. Maybe it’s time to go Dutch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    I average lunch about 1x per month with an AP friend, who will likely see this post. At the end of lunch, we flip a coin, and the loser buys. It has been my good fortune to have probably won 9x out of the last 10 lunches.
    Good thing this came from you and not T3m otherwise we'd be hearing about perfecting his top-secret coin flip steering technique.

    P.S. Time to stop meeting your friend for lunch while you're ahead :-)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    ...I have changed the whole playing culture in areas my team frequents....

    I would give anything to be a 'fly on the wall' of one of your meetings:

    teammate: Three, what time is it...I thought the meeting was suppose to start at...

    Three: let me tell you....the Rolex Datejust has 31 jewels and 255 moving parts...

    LMFAO

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post

    P.S. Time to stop meeting your friend for lunch while you're ahead :-)
    Regardless of who wins, and the ribbing we give each other, lunch is informative, the company is good - and May he continue to pay

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
    say what???
    what!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
    huh???...99.9% of the players are plops...not my experience
    Playing the first part of the shoe heads up only to play a full table once the count gets good is a worst case scenario. You eat all the many negative EV rounds, by yourself, that make the count go up and then get to play very few plus EV rounds as your reward. Like I said a worst case scenario that should be avoided when it is predictable. At certain places and times this is very predictable to almost certainly happen. You are better off just not playing. Trust your scouting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
    is this some IBS (Iritital Bowel Syndrome) strategy???
    It is called controlling a table. Some teams won't let you join unless you can demonstrate this skill, because it is probably the most important and profitable AP skill. If you are good at it you can get most of the people to leave when you want them to leave or play longer when you want them to. You can get most people to wait for the shuffle or not depending on what you want. You can get a lot of ploppies to avoid your table altogether or lammer up spots until you tell them to play. You can even get dealers to cut deeper. The fact that you don't understand how important this skill is while apparently not possessing the skill shows you limit your advantage to just what a computer can get. Playing in a casino is totally different than a sim or playing on a computer. When you learn how to get extra EV from this difference then you will have taken a giant leap forward in getting the money more efficiently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
    so you lead a team now, too.....HAHJAHAHAHAHAHA...no offense, but that's the funniest thing I heard since dbs fixed demand theory
    Yes. A very successful team. I have been doing it for years. No offense, but just because what we do is over your head and beyond your abilities doesn't mean it isn't extremely effective. You have to understand we gather more information and use it differently than you do. The difference in the way we use information really tightens up the bell curves around decisions. That means lower risk (or higher bets at the same risk) and/or more EV and/or more certain BR growth. We get all three but primarily target the latter quite successfully.

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