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Thread: Value of Penetration Illustration

  1. #14
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by ferenc11 View Post
    I found an 8 deck game at Excalibur's with half deck cut off, once.
    I have found that casinos regularly change things up. Pen may at regular intervals change from poor to great and back again. Card thickness may change along with the size of discard trays used to hold the already played cards. I think high paid independent advisors come through periodically and just tell them to change everything in order to justify their high fees. If the casino cuts thin they use the argument that cutting thin is making them vulnerable to counters. If they are cutting thick they use the argument of how much more money they would make by getting more rounds an hour in with a thin cut. You will see changes casino-wide for many games at the same time periodically. In casinos where this is the case you just need to keep an eye out for the conditions you want to play. Eventually the pendulum swings back. I have no problem getting 1/2 deck cut off but I train dealers to do that. They give me what they can. When the casino goes to 2 decks cut off I will get 1 to 1.5 cut off. Some dealers are too clueless to learn how to get regular small tips. Others are easy to train how to get that treat.

  2. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    I have found that casinos regularly change things up. Pen may at regular intervals change from poor to great and back again. Card thickness may change along with the size of discard trays used to hold the already played cards. I think high paid independent advisors come through periodically and just tell them to change everything in order to justify their high fees. If the casino cuts thin they use the argument that cutting thin is making them vulnerable to counters. If they are cutting thick they use the argument of how much more money they would make by getting more rounds an hour in with a thin cut. You will see changes casino-wide for many games at the same time periodically. In casinos where this is the case you just need to keep an eye out for the conditions you want to play. Eventually the pendulum swings back. I have no problem getting 1/2 deck cut off but I train dealers to do that. They give me what they can. When the casino goes to 2 decks cut off I will get 1 to 1.5 cut off. Some dealers are too clueless to learn hoe to get good tips. Others are easy to train how to get that treat.
    Thanks Three. This is the skill that I should master. I know a few tricks ("Cut thin to win"), but It doesn't work out for me all the time unfortunately.
    Normally I just aim at deep penetration without revealing any kind of intention.
    You told me quality games. So I follow your advice without a doubt.

    Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by ferenc11 View Post
    I found an 8 deck game at Excalibur's with half deck cut off, once.
    Are you sure you were not drunk or see ghost when you saw that?

  4. #17


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    In fact I was quite sober.
    Quote Originally Posted by cc12b View Post
    Are you sure you were not drunk or see ghost when you saw that?
    Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    Some time ago, I created this chart to illustrate the value of pentration for the 6 deck game. I used CVCX with optimal betting with a 10K bank and then at varying penetration levels starting at 78 cards.

    The middle section of the chart illustrates the edge improvement in raw numbers and the right sections illustrates the % improvement over 78 cards.

    The results of the analysis where, for me, very eye opening and should promote such analysis with the games you are making selection decisions about.


    Attachment 3214
    This is for Falsecount to consider, regarding his OP of today. Check post 1.

  6. #19
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Some of the canned sims include side counts and some don't They are identified as such.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Some of the canned sims include side counts and some don't They are identified as such.
    Im assuming your referring to ace neutral counts versus ace reckoned?

  8. #21


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    [QUOTE=Red Green;259548]What is the numeric code after the count name?


    When using the "Compare" function in CVCX the drop down provides a description of the sim and includes (a date?) a number identifier. I included the number provided to allow for cross reference confirmation of the sim.

    My purpose was to illustrate the overriding value of deeper penetration and was done for a "controlled" audience. While I did edit what I was doing, I did not have an independent third party to review and confirm my findings. If errors exist, I apologize and will be happy to correct if identified.

    I hope you find it useful.

    Stealth
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  9. #22


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    [QUOTE=Stealth;259913]
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Green View Post
    What is the numeric code after the count name?


    When using the "Compare" function in CVCX the drop down provides a description of the sim and includes (a date?) a number identifier. I included the number provided to allow for cross reference confirmation of the sim.

    My purpose was to illustrate the overriding value of deeper penetration and was done for a "controlled" audience. While I did edit what I was doing, I did not have an independent third party to review and confirm my findings. If errors exist, I apologize and will be happy to correct if identified.

    I hope you find it useful.

    Stealth
    Regardless of any errors that may be identified, the huge salient point is the effect of deeper penetration on increased earnings.

  10. #23


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    Don't mean to dig up old threads, but this chart is inaccurate all across the board, right? I notice it's showing zen as like one of the weakest systems of them all which is very concerning to me. I did notice previous posters mentioning the inaccuracies, but they seem to be saying it's because of side counts not included. I would like to confirm if the inaccuracies go beyond that.
    Last edited by UncleChoo; 08-16-2019 at 10:15 AM.

  11. #24
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Depends on which Zen. There were several. IIRC, the original had no split indices. Another had a TC calc divisor of quarter-deck, which significantly reduced its SCORE. No question that Zen done correctly is an excellent compromise between pitch and shoe games, its original purpose.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Depends on which Zen. There were several. IIRC, the original had no split indices. Another had a TC calc divisor of quarter-deck, which significantly reduced its SCORE. No question that Zen done correctly is an excellent compromise between pitch and shoe games, its original purpose.
    I'm using indices from here http://blackjackforumonline.com/cont...nt_Indices.htm My TC method is full deck rounding. Thanks in advance for chiming in on this.

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