Most often I would say no, but every situation is different. It depends on the atmosphere of the table. If I have been talking with other players and they don't seem to care then yes. But not something I would try to force.
BS table would suffice doesn’t it ? There are tables on the probabilities. Like chance of winning a doubling 9/10 vs 5 is more than 60 percent .Originally Posted by San Jose Bella
In other cases such as splitting 8s against 10, only reduces the expected loss but it’s not +EV play so you don’t want in. I think most hands are quite clear on whether it’s a good scavenge or not. Some more marginal hands are maybe buying people’s surrenders. I rmb 12 is maybe a good buy but not 14 . Maybe someone should prepare a user friendly strategy table on that
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The math changes when buying surrenders. Remember - the payoff is 2-1 vs. 1-1 (in most cases).BS table would suffice doesn’t it ? There are tables on the probabilities. Like chance of winning a doubling 9/10 vs 5 is more than 60 percent .
In other cases such as splitting 8s against 10, only reduces the expected loss but it’s not +EV play so you don’t want in. I think most hands are quite clear on whether it’s a good scavenge or not. Some more marginal hands are maybe buying people’s surrenders. I rmb 12 is maybe a good buy but not 14 . Maybe someone should prepare a user friendly strategy table on that
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Someone wants to surrender a hand (rather than hit/stand.) You give them 1/2 their money back (what they bet) and you take over their hand for that round. If a hand has an Expectation difference that is +EV (that is hitting/standing - surrendering = +EV), you buy when they want to call it quits.
Last edited by lij45o6; 10-18-2018 at 10:59 PM.
Takes a bit of judgement call and assessment of the ploppy. Businessman with deeper pockets are the best kind. Amateurish players or tourists is not bad too. Avoid degens, no dealings with them at all cost.
Strike conversations with the table first, figure out their socioeconomic profile. Assess their playing and look for scavenge opportunities . Some people play a moderate bs but will do stupid things like even money. Some play aggressive or tight depends on how they feel their luck pr the scared flow is that day. Some are absolute amateurs and welcome guidance from another player, you can absolutely influence them. Some play an extremely bad game but they are long time players that think they know what they are doing. (Avoid those )
There is definitely no one size fit all guide on scavenging
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blue_phantom,
BS is not sufficient. For example, consider 16 vs. 10, for which the HiLo Surrender index is -2. If the HiLo TC is -5, buying the surrender is +EV. However, if the TC is +5, buying the surrender is -EV.
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
Right !!!
I should rephrase it to buying any surrender that deviates from your index play.
In anycase it’s not possible to scavenge EVERY hand without being overly suspicious.
If in doubt, I’ll just leave it. It’s not really worth the effort or risk to scavenge a marginal hand.
The really obvious hands (not to ploppies) are also the highest profit ones that one should focus on.
Common mistakes (in Asia) are even money, surrendering 12/13, failing to double on 9v5, 8v6, Failing to split 9s ( my fav one but it’s so hard to convince someone to give me a split to “share” their risk, they think they’ve got a guaranteed win against 4 or 5 and don’t want to take risk), double for less ( that’s the best and easiest one as long as you throw down a chip fast enough no one refused to let you in)
16 vs 10 is kinda wayy too marginal a hand even with 2 to 1 payoff. I don’t have Wong with me, but isn’t the probability of losing that hand something like 80% at the back of my memory.
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I much prefer selling surrenders.
For example, I have 16vT and want to surrender. Guy next to me is pissed off and says "never surrender." I say, "if you want to buy my hand, you're welcome to play it any way you want." He pays me what's in the circle and it's his hand. Much better surrendering for 100% of your bet!
I have a friend who told me a story about a guy at his table freaking out over any surrender, so he tried an experiment. First it was 16vT, then it was 15v9, then 14v8... The guy would buy pretty much any stiff hand when my friend said he would surrender it!
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