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Thread: % of games with Surrender and S17

  1. #1


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    % of games with Surrender and S17

    I don't seem to come across DD or 6 deck games with Surrender and S17 or even just Surrender or just S17. Perhaps they are offered in HL rooms? I play mostly in LV, MS and MO.

    Have they declined in numbers in recent years?

    I started skimming over BJA and maybe 50% of the tables and significant space is dedicated to games with Surrender and S17. I suppose I would pay more attention when and if I end up in a place where such games are available and prevalent.

    I am amazed at how much I still have to incorporate in my game from BJA I started dog earing pages in BJA for further studying and memorizing. It's just been 3 days since it was delivered to me. Don S spends a lot of it explaining how various stuff was calculated and arrived at, stuff I don't need because I believe it when he says it, no explanation needed. So, finding and marking the conclusions, learning the end results and not how they were arrived at is my task.

  2. #2


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    Never come across any DD with surrender. Best DD ive played is with DOA, s17, DAS and RSA. But was in a high limit room and only at one particular place off strip.

    Generally speaking the "playable" DD games on the strip in the low limit sections are h17, DAS and in the high limit rooms (on the strip) its generally the same game but with s17 instead.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I don't seem to come across DD or 6 deck games with Surrender and S17 or even just Surrender or just S17. Perhaps they are offered in HL rooms? I play mostly in LV, MS and MO.

    Have they declined in numbers in recent years?

    I started skimming over BJA and maybe 50% of the tables and significant space is dedicated to games with Surrender and S17. I suppose I would pay more attention when and if I end up in a place where such games are available and prevalent.

    I am amazed at how much I still have to incorporate in my game from BJA I started dog earing pages in BJA for further studying and memorizing. It's just been 3 days since it was delivered to me. Don S spends a lot of it explaining how various stuff was calculated and arrived at, stuff I don't need because I believe it when he says it, no explanation needed. So, finding and marking the conclusions, learning the end results and not how they were arrived at is my task.
    If I'm not mistaken finding a S17 LS DD might be virtually impossible. That game would be damn near positive off the bat. S17 LS shoe must be very very rare unless ur playing a multiple black chip min game. H17 DAS RSA DD is a good find at reasonable mins, and to a slightly lesser extent S17 shoe or H17 LS shoe.

  4. #4


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    Generally speaking, I am not aware of any DD games with surrender anywhere. If you find it, consider it a unicorn.

    S17 is usually limited to high limit and usually very sweaty.

    Most playable Vegas DD is H17 DAS with RSA at local stores. Key is penetration. Most strip stores are 50-60%. Better offers can be found at local stores.

    Very important to have a cover game to play these. The majority of players in OSN got there playing DD on the strip. Running your optimal ramps will get you blown up very fast.

    Sessions greater than an hour exponentiate your risk of countermeasures.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  5. #5


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    There’s around a half dozen double deck games with surrender on the west coast and a few others sprinkled throughout the US. None are s17 and all are varying degrees of sweaty, about 2/3 of them have reputations for nasty trespasses (I’ve experienced two of them and agree, but did get several sessions and decent money out of both.) Not sure why I’m spoon feeding you of all people but one is less than five hours from you. I’m pretty damn sure you’ve referenced playing one of these places (Brona), but not surprising you wouldn’t be aware of the rules of a game you’re playing. All of those that I know of and am referring to other than one are listed in CBJN. There were maybe three s17 LS DD games that I’m aware have existed on the east coast within the last 5 years or so but are no longer there today.


    S17 LS shoe games are not uncommon on the east coast and all over PA obviously, fairly uncommon outside of Vegas HL rooms on the west with S17 being pretty uncommon out west.
    Last edited by mcallister3200; 10-11-2018 at 09:18 AM.

  6. #6


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    i played a DD LS game long ago . It was finally put to rest . if it is sweaty then what is the point ?

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    There’s around a half dozen double deck games with surrender on the west coast and a few others sprinkled throughout the US. None are s17 and all are varying degrees of sweaty, about 2/3 of them have reputations for nasty trespasses (I’ve experienced two of them and agree, but did get several sessions and decent money out of both.) Not sure why I’m spoon feeding you of all people but one is less than five hours from you. I’m pretty damn sure you’ve referenced playing one of these places (Brona), but not surprising you wouldn’t be aware of the rules of a game you’re playing. All of those that I know of and am referring to other than one are listed in CBJN. There were maybe three s17 LS DD games that I’m aware have existed on the east coast within the last 5 years or so but are no longer there today.


    S17 LS shoe games are not uncommon on the east coast and all over PA obviously, fairly uncommon outside of Vegas HL rooms on the west with S17 being pretty uncommon out west.
    There is no point mentioning Barona. They have the sharpest management in the game, and no counter will last there. They also uniformly deal just over 50% of DD. I suggest forgetting about it.

    Don

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by angle_sh00ter View Post
    Never come across any DD with surrender.
    I have played S17 DAS LS games in at least 2 states. One of the state's games got burned. Not sure about the other state. I am not saying where any of them are. It is so hot you could fry an egg at the table. I bet 1 unit off the top and either dropped to half a unit or went to a 2 unit max bet. With an off the top advantage for a strong count you don't need to do much to make good money. Lasting long enough to make good money is the trick. I decided it was better to just play the great shoe games that are largely ignored while they hawk the great DD game. With all factors considered the shoe games won hands down as the better game.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    I have played S17 DAS LS games in at least 2 states. One of the state's games got burned. Not sure about the other state. I am not saying where any of them are. It is so hot you could fry an egg at the table. I bet 1 unit off the top and either dropped to half a unit or went to a 2 unit max bet. With an off the top advantage for a strong count you don't need to do much to make good money. Lasting long enough to make good money is the trick. I decided it was better to just play the great shoe games that are largely ignored while they hawk the great DD game. With all factors considered the shoe games won hands down as the better game.
    Oh yeah I wouldn't mention where those games are either. If I ever got lucky enough to find a game like that I would have some fun and get creative with the cover plays. Your profit margin is so big that you can afford a hefty advertising budget.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by angle_sh00ter View Post
    Oh yeah I wouldn't advertise where those games are either. If I ever got lucky enough to find a game like that I would have some fun and get creative with the cover plays. Your profit margin is so big that you can afford a hefty advertising budget.
    That’s a pretty good analogy. I’ve played DD, alternatively with great rules and pen combined with heavy heat, as well as shitty rules and pen with huge spreads. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

    I’ve also played pretty shitty rules and pen with heavy heat. It’s interesting watching the vultures circle.

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