Why am I not playing 2 hands heads up?

**Counting_Is_Fun** · 10-01-2018, 10:33 PM

In the saved sim in CVCX...
Heads up with dealer
Double deck H17
75% pen
100 hands\hour
1-6 spread with $25 unit

It shows win\hour of $49.17 when playing one hand.
It shows win\hour of $98.34 when playing two hands. And also a significantly lower N0.
So why shouldn't I play two hands ???

**Bubbles** · 10-01-2018, 11:03 PM

This is per 100 rounds. When you play two hands the rounds per hour decrease. It's also not optimal for EV to play two hands heads up which is covered early on in BJA3. If you want to play two hands, play two hands.

**stopgambling** · 10-01-2018, 11:26 PM

think about the added benefits of playing 2 hands which isn't as apparent .

**lij45o6** · 10-01-2018, 11:41 PM

Betting two hands with a slightly lower spread allows same EV with less Variance as one hand. (2 hands of 4-1 as opposed to 1 hand 6-1)

Betting two hands with same spread allows greater EV with small increase in variance as one hand. (2 hands of 6-1 as opposed to 1 hand 6-1)

Betting one or two hand depends on your risk tolerance as well as your bankroll capabilities...withstanding massive swings playing 2 handed.

EDIT: DonS is right. A significant feat indeed! Alas, I was reprimanded and wish to atone for my sins.

**ZeeBabar** · 10-02-2018, 04:40 AM

If you switch the number of hands you play without any pattern to it, the bet amounts on each hand ($40 in one, $25 in another, etc), and develop it (be seen an changing flow because you lost 2 hands in a row, betting more on one spot cause you think it's luckier than the other) and then you can often play one hand when count gets seriously negative (TC-2) and bet more on 2 hands in positive shoes. It works for longevity and since heads up, you cannot wong out, playing one hand minimums helps. You just have to set up the pit to seeing you as a highly superstitious gambler.

**Three** · 10-02-2018, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Counting_Is_Fun

It shows win\hour of $49.17 when playing one hand.
It shows win\hour of $98.34 when playing two hands. And also a significantly lower N0.
So why shouldn't I play two hands ???

You should play 2 hands. You are doubling your hourly and getting 67% of the rounds in about the same amount of time while reducing n0.

**Three** · 10-02-2018, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bubbles

This is per 100 rounds. When you play two hands the rounds per hour decrease. It's also not optimal for EV to play two hands heads up which is covered early on in BJA3. If you want to play two hands, play two hands.

This assumes you will do a bet 73% of your one spot bet on each of two spots. That is a weird bet. Most will bet 75% of their one spot bet on each of two spots. The latter shifts it to being a higher EV for playing two spots. Of course you would give a minimal amount up to increased RoR. In reality a practical two spot ramp and a practical one spot ramp would have rounding that favored both number of spots randomly. For your practical ramps two spots may bet more than 73% or less than 73% of your one spot bet on each of two spots for any TC. You have to see what works out best for your particular practical bets for each betting bin. I prefer two spots heads up but kind of go with the flow of what is currently working on that shoe. I don't worry about the minuscule difference between optimal bets because practical bets will alter bets more than that difference so the difference is within the rounding error for practical bets, which prevents a clear winner. But if you want to worry about it, game speed changes must be factored in as well as the rounding for each bet size. For me the slow part of of the play is the dealer playing his hand. So what has the dealer playing the fewest hands heads up is the best, that is playing two spots. Of course this depends on the dealer. If the dealer can just tap the felt on a win/loss push two hands becomes much faster. Dealer speed is dealer dependent as different dealers will be affected different ways by you playing one spot or two spots heads up. So the answer is it depends on the dealer, and the practical bet rounding for your optimal bets.

**DSchles** · 10-02-2018, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by dogman_1234

Betting two hands with a slightly lower spread allows same EV with less Variance as one hand. (2 hands of 4-1 as opposed to 1 hand 6-1)

Betting two hands with same spread allows greater EV with same variance as one hand. (2 hands of 6-1 as opposed to 1 hand 6-1)

Betting one or two hand depends on your risk tolerance as well as your bankroll capabilities...withstanding massive swings playing 2 handed.

Maybe you can explain to me how you can bet 12 units per round, instead of 6, and wind up with the same variance. That would be quite a feat. Unfortunately, it simply isn't true.

Don

**Counting_Is_Fun** · 10-02-2018, 10:37 AM

I assume Dogman meant to say HIGHER variance if playing 2 hands with same spread.
But if I am ok handling the higher variance/swings of playing 2 hands then I am ok right?
The sim only shows an increase in ROR from 0.4% (1 hand) to 1.6% (2 hands).
So if I am ok with ROR of 1.6% then I should go ahead and play 2 hands heads up?
ROR of 1.6% is reasonable right?
By the way I am using a bankroll of 30K.

And for longevity I don't plan on moving back and forth from 1 hand to 2 hands...I don't even think they allow it on the double deck...I'm just trying to figure out if I should be playing with 2 hands heads up or not...basically it says that I can double my hourly, and lower my N0 while only increasing my ROR to 1.6%

**DSchles** · 10-02-2018, 02:59 PM

No, you're not interpreting the numbers correctly. If you play alone at the table, you need to consider the extra cards you're using to play two hands. Won't repeat what's discussed in BJA3. Do you have it?

Don

**hitthat16** · 10-02-2018, 05:30 PM

Long story short, one hand heads up gets the most money on the felt over the course of a positive count shoe. Two hands when others are at the table also gets the most money on the felt over the course of a positive shoe.

BJA3 covers that in much greater detail.

**Three** · 10-02-2018, 05:59 PM

Yes, but the difference isn't large enough to overcome the variables involved in casino play. So as the say in election surveys the difference is less than the error rate of the poll so there is no clear cut winner. In actual casino play the right answer will vary depending on details like dealer dependent affect on game speed, rounding of optimal to practical bets for one and two spots for the current TC, how many more rounds you have left to play using one hand or two hands, etc.

**lij45o6** · 10-02-2018, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

Maybe you can explain to me how you can bet 12 units per round, instead of 6, and wind up with the same variance. That would be quite a feat. Unfortunately, it simply isn't true.

Don

*gasps*

A critique from DS himself?! I, for one, am honored!

Don, I edited my post in #4. Should reflect reality a bit more...at least to your liking.

dogman out.