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Thread: (WHILE PRACTICING) Tip to Quickly Verify the Estimated Number of Cards in Penetration

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    Senior Member SteinMeister's Avatar
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    (WHILE PRACTICING) Tip to Quickly Verify the Estimated Number of Cards in Penetration

    I’ve been practicing visually estimating penetration based on the dealers cut card position, and also practicing estimating the number of decks in the DIT (Decks In discard Tray) for TC conversion. Quickly got tired of measuring thickness to estimate number of decks, and counting the number of cards for verification is absurd. So I started using my wife’s digital scale (which she uses for recipes / cooking) to determine the actual number of cards. It measures down to the gram, and is accurate to the card (well, maybe +- 1 card). It’s now much easier and quicker (AND more accurate) to verify my original estimate.

    Below are pics of the digital scale. (Note: I’m not promoting this scale in any way; just sharing information).

    4 pics combinedjpg25percent.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by SteinMeister; 09-25-2018 at 07:58 PM.

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    Just number the cards and dedicate them for this use. As long as you keep the order intact the number on the top card of the stack being estimated or the bottom of the number on the bottom of the cut off part indicates how many cards are in the stack.

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    Tried 3's trick and kept dropping the damn cards.... so I have a piece of duct tape on the back side of the discard tray with markings on it for the decks. I just don't look at it except to check myself.

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    I'm practicing the 2 same things right now. When dealing to myself, sometimes I'll be caught between say, 3.5 or 4 decks in the tray, when it looks right around 3.75. So I count em all out to see which is closer. Sometimes it's exactly 3.75, or whatever I'm caught on... I can count them pretty fast though, I don't mind, I only do it a few times a shoe just to verify my visual calibration.

    Otherwise, during the day, I always leave a certain size in the discard tray just sitting in my dorm, and just look at it from different angles every time I come into or out of the room. I'm getting so much better than I used to be, it's insane. Now I can usually cut within 2-3 cards, or to the exact card if it's within a deck or two to one end. I didn't realize how bad my deck estimation was when I first started playing, but it was bad.


    But hey, maybe I can "borrow" a scale from the supply room after my next lab assistant shift...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CountinCanadian View Post
    I'm practicing the 2 same things right now. When dealing to myself, sometimes I'll be caught between say, 3.5 or 4 decks in the tray, when it looks right around 3.75. So I count em all out to see which is closer. Sometimes it's exactly 3.75, or whatever I'm caught on... I can count them pretty fast though, I don't mind, I only do it a few times a shoe just to verify my visual calibration.
    Make sure you do the estimate of cards played so your deck estimation rounding is done the same way the sim you use to base your decisions on does it. I would tell you how I do it but I am pretty sure I do it differently than most. I tell the sim do it a certain way. I don't think it is the standard way it is done. I am not sure if it is better or worse but it is what I think is best without any testing to back my supposition up. But I do it the way the sim that I use does it. That is the important thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CountinCanadian View Post
    I'm practicing the 2 same things right now. When dealing to myself, sometimes I'll be caught between say, 3.5 or 4 decks in the tray, when it looks right around 3.75. So I count em all out to see which is closer. Sometimes it's exactly 3.75, or whatever I'm caught on... I can count them pretty fast though, I don't mind, I only do it a few times a shoe just to verify my visual calibration.

    Otherwise, during the day, I always leave a certain size in the discard tray just sitting in my dorm, and just look at it from different angles every time I come into or out of the room. I'm getting so much better than I used to be, it's insane. Now I can usually cut within 2-3 cards, or to the exact card if it's within a deck or two to one end. I didn't realize how bad my deck estimation was when I first started playing, but it was bad.


    But hey, maybe I can "borrow" a scale from the supply room after my next lab assistant shift...
    Forget the scale. Take a felt marker and number the cards 1 thru 312. Keep the cards 8n numerical order, and practice away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Make sure you do the estimate of cards played so your deck estimation rounding is done the same way the sim you use to base your decisions on does it. I would tell you how I do it but I am pretty sure I do it differently than most. I tell the sim do it a certain way. I don't think it is the standard way it is done. I am not sure if it is better or worse but it is what I think is best without any testing to back my supposition up. But I do it the way the sim that I use does it. That is the important thing.
    I was thinking, unless confident calculating TC with quarter decks, which really, I'm sure I'll get to that point, otherwise if I'm right in between 2 half deck incrememnts, it would be best to round down. (Conservative)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Forget the scale. Take a felt marker and number the cards 1 thru 312. Keep the cards 8n numerical order, and practice away.
    I am going to do this. I've been dealing to myself a lot and practicing seeing things with shuffles, so haven't wanted to number them all off yet just to mix them around.. but definitely will be doing this, to get very accurate.

    I was kidding about the scale, I don't condone theft unless done legally from the casinos
    Last edited by CountinCanadian; 09-26-2018 at 05:44 AM. Reason: added emoji

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by SteinMeister View Post
    I’ve been practicing visually estimating penetration based on the dealers cut card position, and also practicing estimating the number of decks in the DIT (Decks In discard Tray) for TC conversion. Quickly got tired of measuring thickness to estimate number of decks, and counting the number of cards for verification is absurd. So I started using my wife’s digital scale (which she uses for recipes / cooking) to determine the actual number of cards. It measures down to the gram, and is accurate to the card (well, maybe +- 1 card). It’s now much easier and quicker (AND more accurate) to verify my original estimate.

    Below are pics of the digital scale. (Note: I’m not promoting this scale in any way; just sharing information).

    4 pics combinedjpg25percent.jpg
    SteinMeister,

    Do you think the casino will object to your taking the discards out of the tray and placing them on your scale during play? ;-)

    Dog Hand

  10. #10
    Senior Member SteinMeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Forget the scale. Take a felt marker and number the cards 1 thru 312. Keep the cards 8n numerical order, and practice away.
    I have the same problem as Optimus Prime… while squeezing together 6 decks sometimes gravity wins and I end up playing my dad’s favorite game of ’52 Pickup (but times 6).


    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Make sure you do the estimate of cards played so your deck estimation rounding is done the same way the sim you use to base your decisions on does it. I would tell you how I do it but I am pretty sure I do it differently than most. I tell the sim do it a certain way. I don't think it is the standard way it is done. I am not sure if it is better or worse but it is what I think is best without any testing to back my supposition up. But I do it the way the sim that I use does it. That is the important thing.
    Thanks for the tip Three. Yes, I do have my sims set correctly (I believe). I use Truncate, it seems to be a better method for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Hand View Post
    SteinMeister,

    Do you think the casino will object to your taking the discards out of the tray and placing them on your scale during play? ;-)

    Dog Hand
    Great idea DH; and then I can exclaim that I represent the card manufacturer and that I’m checking the weight validity of their cards to make sure they’re not cheating.

  11. #11


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    And don't forget thatpicture cards are heavier than low cards because of the extra ink.

  12. #12
    Senior Member SteinMeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    And don't forget thatpicture cards are heavier than low cards because of the extra ink.

    Ahhh. Good point.

    As well as:

    1). the barometric pressure
    2). the moon gravitational pull
    3). spittle from the barking pit boss.

  13. #13


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    But an important point here how do you get cards with the exact same thickness as those in the casino

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