i just saw this . please type in youtube under the title to view. Just finished watching , boring .
This is where ZMF is dead wrong. If you play at your local casino for a long time (like for many years) ratholing is a must, otherwise you won’t last. They keep track of your wins and losses at the table. It they see you’re a consistent winner year after year, they’re going to know you’re an AP and kick you out. Casinos aren’t in the business of handing out money.Originally Posted by cc12b
You've got to learn how to rathole without anybody, including the cameras, noticing. Have you ever been to a magic show? A magician can make something disappear while you’re staring at him trying to figure out what he’s doing. This is how you have to treat ratholing. You need to make the chips disappear without them knowing it’s being done. It can be done. It just takes practice.
It works until they catch you once and make a notation on your file that you sneak chips into your pocket. Once that happens, every time they have unaccounted for chips they are assigned to you. That means all the chips in your pocket and all the chips in everyone else pockets are accounted to you. That will make you seem to win more money not make you seem to win less money than you actually do. I very openly put chips in my pocket and use a few other tricks to help with buy-in versus loss. They typically have me as winning a third of what I actually do every year. When it comes to playing the system it really helps to understand the system and the procedures for each casino you play at. Poppies openly put chips in their pockets all the time. Only APs sneak chips into their pocket. By ratholing you risk both getting every unaccounted for chip assigned to you and getting flagged as a possible AP. Once either happens they can't be undone and you have created lifelong issues that hurts you. The information may even be included in shared info with other casinos.
Thats pretty much what I do, along with several other tricks.
So far, it must be working for me because I’ve been doing it for many years and I get very good comps. All my meals are comped every weekend, I get several hotel nights free a month and I get a lot of comp chips every week....and I’m a red chipper.
I know they have me down as a pretty big long term loser and I’ve been playing there regularly for many years. I’m probably the gold standard when it comes to ratholing. Lol. I’m so good, I’ve thought of writing a book on this subject. lol. I wonder if being a good ratholer could get me elected into the Blackjack Hall of Fame. I don’t think they have any of those people in their yet. I could be the first. Lol. They elected a guy who knows how to take advantage of loss rebates, why not have someone in there who knows how to rathole?
Here’s something to think about when it comes to suvelliance. These are some of the lowest paid employees in a casino, and they don’t spend all their time watching the tables. They are watching a lot of things, like slots, hotties, funny customer interactions, losing players, etc. If it’s mostly guys in the surveillance booth, they’re probably spending most their time keeping their eye on the good looking women. The odds of them catching someone ratholeing, even if they did it openly, is slim to none.
Ive met a former surveillance person at one of my local casinos. He’s a good guy but definitely not the sharpest tact in the room. He quit the casino job because he can make more money doing odds jobs, like washing cars. I asked him what he looked for when he was working surveillance and he said not much. He never caught a card counter but said he knew someone that did. He said he mostly took naps when he was sitting in this room. After talking to him, I was even less worried about surveillance.
This is in small casinos in the south. I’m sure the situation is different in Vegas or other larger casinos. But with the smaller casinos, you don’t need to worry too much about surveillance, if they are anything like this guy. He worked there a couple years, and gave me a lot of good insight in how casinos in my area operate and think.
But at the end of the day, you have to cash your chips out at the cage eventually. I understand how ratholing can minimize the appearance of your wins/exaggerate your losses at the table, but how do they not just get their win/loss stats from your buy ins at the tables/payouts at the cage, following only the cash?
CoutinCanadian, I’m glad you brought this up. I thought about it after I made my post. This is by far the most challenging part about ratholing. How do you cash in the rateholed chips at the cage? This is the tricky part.
I know they don’t keep your win/lose records at the cage but you need to be careful you don’t try to cash in too many ratholed chips at the cage. The records of your wins/losses are kept at the pit. What I’m doing probably only works for a red chipper. I won’t usually cash in more than $800 at the cage. I will go to the cage sometimes 3 or 4 times a session. This is normal at my local casinos so it doesn’t look out of the ordinary. I also try to make sure I’m interacting with a new cage person each time I go. I used to not do this until one gal told me this was the third time she saw me that day. She didn’t mean anything by it, but I knew I had to be more careful. I now make sure I only interact with one cage girl a day. If I’m next in line and I can see I’ll be seeing the same cage women, I’ll let someone go ahead of me and act like I’m busy on the phone doing something.
I only cash in about $200 to $400 of my ratholed chips with my other chips. I never ask for purple. Purple is usually when the pit calls the cage to let them know how much you won. When this happens (and it has happened), I cash in the amount the pit has called to the cage. If I’ve had a good session and have close to a $1,000 ratholed, I’ll only cash in some of these chips and save the rest for another trip. But I never use these for table play. I always open up a new session with cash. I want them to record my cash drop.
It’s not a perfect science on how to get rid of these ratholed chips. You got to get a feel for your casino and know what you can get away with, and watch what other players do. I’m still doing new things with this. You can also have a friend go to the casino and cash them in for you. Again, stay under a $1,000 when you cash in your chips. That makes it’s easier to stay under their radar.
Fair point, but I don’t agree with your completely. You're comps are calculated by your bet size and time played. But the casino does mark down what type of player you are. This also helps with your comps. I don’t know exactly how they do this but I know your rating can also be used for comps. I want a bad one when it comes to my play. If they think you’re a poor player and always losing, you will get better comps.
I also know you can go outside the system and get good comps. I’ve asked to see the host and got comps I wouldn’t have normally got using the casino system. Some pit bosses can do extra things to get you comps too. I know some casinos have clamped down on this, but not all of them.
Bottom line is it helps if they think you’re a loser. You can play longer and it does help you some in getting better comps. The system isn’t as rigid as some think. It also helps if they think you’re a good guy/gal. That’s why I tip too. I know this helps me, and it’s the right thing to do to your fellow human being. If casinos like you, think you’re a loser and see you as a good guy/gal, they will go out of their way to accommodate you and give you things.
Ask your host what they can do for you. I get a loss rebate I had no idea existed for each visit at one casino. It is in the form of free slot play. I wouldn't have known about it except i kept asking my host what he could do for me. I eventually figured out what was going on. A 10% free slot play rebate on losses on table games. I used to struggle to win there so it helped a lot. I figured out what was going on and hardly ever qualify for the rebate now.
Different casinos do comps differently. The one that backed me off quickest tracked you in three different categories. I was plying my host for more and he said the track players in 3 different ways (win/loss, use of comps, and free play use) and I was way ahead in all 3 so I should be thankful I get anything. A few trips later I was backed off way ahead of when I expected to be backed off. Sometimes doing well against the comp system can be your death. The tolerate a cheap date but are quicker to act against the high cost date that won't put out.
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