It is just that your comments and posts have made you the sites stereotypical idiot. Writing Zee a reference saves many sentences of explanation how idiotic something is.Originally Posted by ZeeBabar
Addition to BJ glossary of terms
Zee Ramp - typical double deck spread from 25 to 2x150, sometimes 175. Characterized as slow ramping, often under betting positive true count to preserve bankroll (protecting the phantom menace).
Further characterized with inferior rule set - NDAS, NSR, NRSA, D9-11 - typical 60% cut. Other gambits include doubling for less, not splitting - designed to phantom protect bankroll.
Typical user of Zee Ramp is recreational counter promoting shoebox glorification.
Bottomline, I have a stated goal of earning $10-$15 grand a year playing recreationally and I get there every year.
Yes, I started out with a shoebox of $15k, the BR crossed $70k this month, I play rated (a no, no), getting on OSN has not been as devastating as claimed here, never having simmed anything, not using software (CVCX, etc), not practicing counting in 3 years (probably cannot count a deck down in 45 seconds), never networking (claimed essential here), never attempting higher level counts, bins and all, I have gotten by. I could not tell you what NO is, what SCORE is. I still make mistakes, some intentionally and it works for me. Many cannot stand it.
Other than the usual suspects, (they are ridiculed on entire web sites and forums), there are few people with the need to humiliate me or anyone else.
Let's be honest, fact is that this behavior (making threads about me or initiating threads about me) is a need of full time pros with nowhere to take their hostilities out. Some campaign to ban me and then they miss me when I am sentenced out of the forum.
The full-time pros are full of $%&# and I, by going against all that BS and still doing OK 4 years going, bothers the hell out of them. I say, you don't need the sophisticated counts, the software, the understanding of all those terms (NO, SCORE) the extensive practice and simming. You can play rated. It's okay to walk out during a positive count, okay to make mistakes, okay to make your mental well-being more important than the BS absolutes that are propagated. You can easily make $40+ per hour without all the crap.
I am going against most member's opinion here . It doesn't bother me with Zee around . He does makes mistakes and lack a deeper understanding of counting . IMO his mistakes are not fatal to his bankroll , especially in his situation. The only thing i am in total disagreement is playing rated ,if one wants to have a choice of playing pro/semi pro. I think it is better for me to respect others here and communicate in a nice manner which can lead me to learn more instead of going into some personal attack or arguments. peace out .
How do you use Hilo without doing TC bins. Are you just guessing what TC bin you are in or playing by "feel" the way you have often described.
Any newbie should read this a few times and should understand that Zee is someone you don't want to listen to.
Right here is the worst advice anyone could listen to. It explains why Zee asks the dumbest questions and makes so little money while spending more time in the casino than many pros. He should be making about double his hourly for his spread according to sim data. When your mistakes and lack of knowledge costs you half your EV your ship doesn't have holes in it, you are on the titanic and you are taking on water so fast that you are definitely sinking. Maybe he likes being on the oceans floor but he should obviously be viewed as a failed counter. Saying you don't need to understand the most basic stuff like SCORE and N0 (n-zero Zee not n-o). I find it hard to believe that someone could show such a lack of initiative and be doing something for decades and have such little understanding of what should be learned in the first months of training, before you ever set foot in a casino. His pitiful results and lack of understand should tell you all you need to know.
NEWBIES BEWARE. DO NOT LISTEN TO ZEE. EVERY EXPERT DISAGREES WITH HIM FOR GOOD REASON.
Three, I completely disagree with you on this post. Zee makes a lot of good points, and I’m not saying that to argue with you.
You need to remember there were a lot of APs out there before bja3 and SCORE, etc. Many bj teams back in the 70 and 80s won a lot of money without all this information. Does all this additional information help an AP gain more EV; does it help them better analyze games, extract more money from a casino? Yes! Is it required to beat bj? No! I was winning money long before I bought Norm’s products. Has his products helped me? Yes.
For the beginner AP, I think Zee’s advice is good, with some exceptions, like walking away from a positive count, doubling for less, etc. But even with this advice I get what he means. You have to take his statements in context. He’s saying if mental health is important, peace of mind is worth something, etc, sometimes it makes sense to do this. When you’ve been losing sometimes it’s best to walk away, or if you’ve had a good bj trip, sometimes it’s best to quit early to lock in a successful trip. I get that.
I think Zee is spot on when it comes to his advice about playing rated for the recreational counter. Also, I like his advice on how to treat the game itself and casino employees and their customers. Also, I think I’ve seen Zee recommend tipping, which is great advice.
Is all his advice good for the pros, or the more analytically inclined bj players? No. Is it good for the recreational player wanting to enjoy the game and win some money on the side? Yes! I like that Zee doesn’t take the game and life so seriously. More people need to go through life this way. The world would be a better place. There is more to life than money. How you treat your fellow man, even casino fellow men/women, is important.
And Three, as far as bins, I’ve never totally understood this term. I’ve read a lot of bj books and never seen bins mentioned. I get what you mean by bins (I think), but for the newbee I’d ignore this bin thing. Another excellent advice Zee gives all the newbees.
Why learn things you have to unlearn to be successful? Just learn to do things right the first time.
A bin is a collection of data that is treated as a unit. Your based are probably based on TC bins. You bet by your betting bins average stats. It is the foundation of everything you do s a card counter. Level 1 counters should use fractional TC bins if they want to make bet ramps less obvious. Or double the RC to get their TC. That allows for a higher resolution which allows more accurate decisions. The same concept is why some pictures are grainy and some are very detailed. It is about the number of pixels. Recommending that Newbies aim for subpar ability does not help them. They should strive to be the best that they can be. The edge from counting cards in BJ is too thin to give up things just because you are lazy and unmotivated. If that is who you are then don't take up counting. The edge is too thin for what your effort will bring to the table.
As for Zee, coming in at a tiny fraction of the EV a modest effort will bring indicates failure not success.
Three, thanks for the clarification on bins. That helps. It’s funny, I’ve been rereading some sections in bja3 and seen bins mentioned a couple times. I didn’t even notice that before. I get what bins means but I think it’s a too complicated term for newbees. There are a lot of bj books that don’t mention the word bins.
As far as what newbees should and should not know about bj, I think the most important things to understand is variance, bankrolls and bankroll Managment. That is much more important than playing a perfect game. Eliot Jackson has shown you can make a lot of mistakes and still play a winning game. I think Eliot would be on Zee’s side on this one. This is a direct quote from Eliot’s book The Blackjack Zone on page 146:
“Mistakes are costly, no doubt. But the fear of them is over-emphasized to the beginner, and the fear persists with the professionals. We do not need to play perfect to be winners. We can be downright lousy and still beat the game.”
Those words could have been written by Zee. They are something every newbee should hear. Sometimes when I read Eliot’s books, I feel I’m reading a book written by Zee. I’m sure those words are like scratch marks on a chalkboard to most pros.
But Zee is constantly making decisions he knows are wrong. We all make mistakes like miscalculations, losing the count, or remembering an index wrong in a pinch. These are unintentional. Zee makes mistakes that he knows he shouldn't do on purpose because he is afraid to risk money or for some other ploppy thought reason. Zee advocates that you do things that you know to be stupid. That is not actually a mistake. It is stupidity. Most think of mistakes like errors in sports. You were trying to do your best but fell short. The mistakes Zee constantly posts about he has posted about many times and knows the right move but he doesn't do it so he won't upset the ploppies, or he won't risk more money to protect his winnings or make sure he doesn't lose too much, or he walks away from a monster count because he hit his win goal and is afraid to risk that by betting into a huge advantage, or he knows the right play but decides he has a feeling and does the negative EV play because last time he did the right play it didn't work out for him. All these things are what failed counters do.
Most newbies are on shoestring BRs and can't afford to do anything they know is stupid. They are desperately trying to outrun ruin. Luck will largely determine their fate but you can make your own bad luck by purposely making mistakes you know are mistakes and there are ways to make your own good luck. Zee's advice is a recipe for an underfunded newbie to bust out from making their own bad luck.
I grew my BR. A big chunk of making it over the hump from high risk of ruin to a decent BR was playing a promotion that gave me an off the top advantage. I learned about it through networking, which is something Zee says you shouldn't do by saying he doesn't do it and does fine. I found out I could green chip with the same RoR as I had red chipping in the promo from networking with real pros. After 5 days of hitting the promo I almost tripled my BR. During the promo I had regrets I didn't walk away at the peak of my days win. I played the entire promo day each day I showed up for the offer. I was up as much as $7K some days but won $2K to $5K each day I played the BJ promo. My BR was only around $10K when I started playing the promo and my biggest winning day was $1500 to that point. The promo kept getting worse each day as they tried to protect it from big playing APs. It really didn't affect me because I was a 2x1 to 2x6 green chipper. The last time I went up I got tired of them changing the rules for the day that would be a 20 hour day with 8 hours of driving and not knowing what awaited me on that visit. I missed the day the promo was offered for the last week. Looking back at it my biggest regret is not playing the promo out to the end. I kept taking a day a week off work to play the promo day for that week. At the time I was regretting not leaving at the peak of each days wins. I played every day out in full, which was he right thing to do regardless of results. I have never had an opportunity like that since then and now understand the correct thoughts I should have used and played out the last day the promo was offered entire 6 week promo.
Had I not been networking I would never have known about the promo, or how to properly bet it for my BR. There is a high probability I would have busted out that BR. If so I might have quit. Because of listening to and trusting what the pros I was networking with said I went from a red chipper with to high a chance that I would bust out to a green chipper with an adequate BR in 5 days of play. Who knows how many times Zee missed good opportunities because he either doesn't network or nobody wants to have him in their network. He has to do all his own scouting and never finds a good opportunity unless he stumbles across it himself. Once he stumbles across one he doesn't know how to maximize its utility. To encourage underfunded newbies to follow Zee's example is likely increasing their chances of busting out by a factor of 10. If they do make it their future will be short because of Zee's advice. Maybe 10% of those that would have made it will make it if they listen to Zee as an example of how to proceed into counting. A newbie could listen to any number of people on this site that all have different approaches and feel their approach is best for themselves. Each one is right for their personal situation despite giving different advice and bickering about what is best. What is best depends on the person. Newbies have so much to learn that Zee would tell them doesn't matter.
T#, the lies and distortions are below you. I did not say anything that you imply. I DO NOT TELL OTHERS HOW TO PLAY OR CALL OTHERS STUPID. I said that I did okay despite the fact that I did not networking, did not take up higher counts, did not buy software, practice, etc. I DO NOT TELLK OTHERS WHAT TO DO. I said that I had a winning record and that all those things were not REQUIRED. There is a difference between saying that one can get by.
Myt point is that recreational, part time players do not need to spend all that time and money if their goals are limited and they have no particular desire to invest a lot of time and money into this hobby. Do you get it?
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