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Thread: Is betting cover necessary for shoe games?

  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
    I have much different experiences....all over the country, sans vegas and ac...duh...lol...

    Please let me know number of times you have been backed off and/or trespassed with 1-12 spread on $25 6-8 deck shoe game

    Thanks!
    I have been backed off from several casinos when doing that, but it was for lifetime win and not my spread or top bet. They allowed me to do it for years.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    I have been backed off from several casinos when doing that, but it was for lifetime win and not my spread or top bet. They allowed me to do it for years.
    Ah...I now see now why you write small novels....u make NO sense...

    Translation: I've been backed off with that spread ("doing that"), but it didn't have to do with my spread....oh, and they let me spread ("do it") for years...

    WTF?????????? That's not double talk, it's TRIPLE talk....LMAO

  3. #29


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    Pretty common for casinos to back off because of aggregate win.

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    Pretty common for casinos to back off because of aggregate win.
    your spread (was) immaterial at that point...

    ...and I will go ahead and answer for ZEEwannaBEE....none, zip, zero, zilch, nil, nada, nothing, never

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
    Ah...I now see now why you write small novels....u make NO sense...

    Translation: I've been backed off with that spread ("doing that"), but it didn't have to do with my spread....oh, and they let me spread ("do it") for years...

    WTF?????????? That's not double talk, it's TRIPLE talk....LMAO
    I thought I very clearly stated what you said in a very short post. Perhaps I needed a longer post since you think it is triple talk. You repeated what I said almost verbatim as a translation. WTF. People like you are why I write longer posts. The subtext was that being backed off while spreading like that may not have to do with your spread and top bet. It is most likely due to something else you have done. In my case it was lifetime win.

  6. #32


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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    I think many people use limited anecdotal evidence to tell themselves what they want to hear about the effectiveness of their cover.
    Delete the last 6 words and you have a universal truth.
    Last edited by 21frogman; 09-16-2018 at 07:53 AM.

  7. #33


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21frogman View Post
    Delete the last 6 words and you have a universal truth.
    +1

  8. #34


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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    Just Make sure you’re actually going to get out of your cover what you want. I think many people use limited anecdotal evidence to tell themselves what they want to hear about the effectiveness of their cover.
    Cover is as necessary a component of your play design as is your bet ramp. Cover can be simmed, planned and tradeoffs made (example: increase max bet one unit to offset off the top big bet 25% of new shoes). Effective levels of EV can be maintained while improving your longevity.

    Comments that suggest it is not necessary are misleading and not helpful. How many times I have been backed off is interesting but of no value in making your decision. The objective is to play longer without getting backed off.

    The number of times I have been backed off is of no value to you. My persona, bet levels, bet ramps, playing style, etc, etc, etc, all play a big role in my ability to play. Counting how many times an old white guy got backed off is not relevant to the 25 year old clean cut guy. Profiling is alive and well in game protection. Until you understand all the components required, you will have difficulty solving the problem. There are over 1,000 blackjack players in OSN that were backed off with spreads around or below 1-12.

    Including cover plays from anecdotal evidence you have not simmed, and you do not know the impact on your EV, is not advised.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  9. #35


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    Cover is as necessary a component of your play design as is your bet ramp. Cover can be simmed, planned and tradeoffs made (example: increase max bet one unit to offset off the top big bet 25% of new shoes). Effective levels of EV can be maintained while improving your longevity.

    Comments that suggest it is not necessary are misleading and not helpful. How many times I have been backed off is interesting but of no value in making your decision. The objective is to play longer without getting backed off.

    The number of times I have been backed off is of no value to you. My persona, bet levels, bet ramps, playing style, etc, etc, etc, all play a big role in my ability to play. Counting how many times an old white guy got backed off is not relevant to the 25 year old clean cut guy. Profiling is alive and well in game protection. Until you understand all the components required, you will have difficulty solving the problem. There are over 1,000 blackjack players in OSN that were backed off with spreads around or below 1-12.

    Including cover plays from anecdotal evidence you have not simmed, and you do not know the impact on your EV, is not advised.
    Nice post - stated well.

  10. #36


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    OSN is not a significant deterrent; it just isnt. Your local exposure and flyers most definitely, but by the time they’re paging through hundreds of photos to find an unrated player you’re not taking much money from there anymore anyway. And it’s also filled with people who use betting cover. There is a common theme here, most serious part time players consider cover to be mandatory, most full time players consider it to be optional. Perhaps something to do with willingness to travel, or never having to have relied on it to pay the bills. Some backoffs are saved when casinos see a weaker positive game for what it is, or in more positive terms within tolerance levels.

    There is more than one way to skin a cat. Optional, and there are definitely benefits. OP is scared of getting backed off. If you want fewer backoffs cover will help. My belief, and personal experience when I employed it, is that for me it didn’t increase the EV between them, which is more important to me than saving perhaps 20% of the backoffs.

    I will concede it’s more likely necessary playing decent double deck games for any sort of stakes, but many serious players are avoiding those games anyway for that reason.
    Last edited by mcallister3200; 09-16-2018 at 12:21 PM.

  11. #37


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    good points by both mc callister and stealth . these are the kind of posts i enjoy reading .

  12. #38


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    I apologize if the tone of my post was defensive or aggressive l, probably could edit a couple things to be more appropriate.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    .
    . There are over 1,000 blackjack players in OSN that were backed off with spreads around or below 1-12.
    d.
    What evidence do you have off this? ...let alone is is $25 min 6-8 deck shoes...

    NONE!!!

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