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Thread: Is betting cover necessary for shoe games?

  1. #1


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    Is betting cover necessary for shoe games?

    I'm recreational but a little paranoid so I've adopted some of the betting cover strategies I've read on here (not lowering bet after win, starting shoe with 2x min, not jumping from min to max. etc), but I'm playing only 6- or 8-deck shoe games currently. Is betting cover needed for these games or is it only wise for DD and I'm giving away EV for nothing? I don't play long sessions either.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cottage cheese View Post
    Is betting cover needed for these games or is it only wise for DD and I'm giving away EV for nothing? I don't play long sessions either.
    It depends on where you are playing and what staff is working. If you are feeling you are pushing what you can get away with it helps. But if you don't need it, it is a waste of EV.
    Last edited by Three; 09-13-2018 at 09:12 PM.

  3. #3


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    Sometimes you do, sometimes you don’t. Of course, it depends on you, too. Some are fine just burning a store and moving on while others would rather milk it for longer but making less.

    But I would say, in general, yes you need cover.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

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    What’s your normal EV. What’s the cost of cover. What kind of cover. Once you answer these questions, then you know the technical answer. Then analyze that against your personal feelings.

    Low stakes low EV players should not consider cover.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    What’s your normal EV. What’s the cost of cover. What kind of cover. Once you answer these questions, then you know the technical answer. Then analyze that against your personal feelings.

    Low stakes low EV players should not consider cover.
    This is good advice above. The only thing I`ll add to it is, in case the OP doesn`t know it yet (or have the product already), CVData calculates all the cover methods he mentioned plus more. That way you can calculate down to the penny how much your cover methods are costing you.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by SplitFaceDisaster View Post
    This is good advice above. The only thing I`ll add to it is, in case the OP doesn`t know it yet (or have the product already), CVData calculates all the cover methods he mentioned plus more. That way you can calculate down to the penny how much your cover methods are costing you.
    +1. Low stakes dont need cover. Almost all newbies go through a period where we are paranoid about heat. The older ones are paranoid, in my opinion, needlessly, about playing rated, about OSN, about casino personnel on forums like these, about a lot more. As T3 once (or more) stated, its not the card counters that casinos are worried about, its the "skilled" (as in lots of Bankroll, optimal bettors and more) that concern them. If you are playing $5 table and doing a bit of wonging or increasing your bet to $30 after entering the game with $60, they dont care. So, if they see you win, they think you will tell your friends and more folks would walk in with $100 to try BJ.

  7. #7


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    Never too early to start adding a little deception to your game in order to get more longevity. The cost is minimal and it could definitely extend the amount of time you are allowed to play. Just no playing cover.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    What’s your normal EV. What’s the cost of cover. What kind of cover. Once you answer these questions, then you know the technical answer. Then analyze that against your personal feelings.

    Low stakes low EV players should not consider cover.

    I wish i knew. I wanted to buy the software from Norm but it's not compatible with macs. I made a post asking for someone to help me figure it out, but got no response. Heck, at this point I'd pay someone $10 to help me figure it out.

    Here it is again, in case someone can help:

    I mostly play 6 decks, 3:2, LS, s17 mostly but sometimes h17, 75-80% pen. Sometimes I play 8 deck, around the same pen, usually with the same rules.

    Spread: I play 15/25 games. I usually start with two hands then sit/wong out one or both when TC -2. Max is 2 hands of around 275 each. For a 15 game, a bit less. Some betting camo I picked up from here, such as usually not reducing bet after a win, not jumping bets from min to max, etc.

    I do some wonging in as well if I happen to pass by a table just starting. I'll come in at TC 1-2 and see if it goes anywhere. I also do not play long sessions. I do not play another shoe after my max bet.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by cottage cheese View Post

    Spread: I play 15/25 games. I usually start with two hands then sit/wong out one or both when TC -2. Max is 2 hands of around 275 each. For a 15 game, a bit less. Some betting camo I picked up from here, such as usually not reducing bet after a win, not jumping bets from min to max, etc.
    Would need a few additional details to figure your EV. You can afford some cover given your general parameters further providing your game is solid.

    Regarding your last comment - get Snyder’s Blackbelt in Blackjack - read the few pages on opposition betting, anD reread it several times. When you finally think you understand it, then read it a few more times. Then, post your next question for further feedback.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by cottage cheese View Post
    I wish i knew. I wanted to buy the software from Norm but it's not compatible with macs. I made a post asking for someone to help me figure it out, but got no response. Heck, at this point I'd pay someone $10 to help me figure it out.
    Purchase Parallels or you can get Virtualbox for free. Then run Norm’s software on Windows. That’s what I use on my Macbook Pro.

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