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Thread: A simple question about DD TC calculation

  1. #1


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    A simple question about DD TC calculation

    Double deck,hi-opt2 with ASC, flooring method and quarter deck resolution.Running count is 6 after seeing exactly 7 or 8 cards without ace in the first round. Whats the correct betting true count now?

  2. #2


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    TC = (RC + (ASC)) / (104 - 7); ASC = 2 * ((-13 * A + nA) / 13 = 2 * (-13 * 0 + 7) / 13 = 14/13

    TC = (6 + (14/13)) / ((104 - 7) / 52)

    TC = (7 + 1/13) / (97/ 52)

    TC = (85/13) / (97 / 52)

    TC = (85 / 97) * (52 / 13)

    TC = (0.8763) * 4 = 3.5052

    ================================================== ========================
    NOW: for the simple explanation:

    TC = (6 + 0*2) / (7.5/4)

    TC = 6 * 4 / 7.5 = 3.2 approx.

    Basically, you have about a 3 to 3.5 HOII TC.

    If you want to include the half extra point from the lack of Aces drawn for the first 1/8 of a deck:

    TC = (6 + .5*2) / (7.5/4)

    TC = 7 * 4 / 7/5 = 3.73

    So, about 3.5

    ================================================== =======================
    Not familiar with flooring. What do you mean by that? The TC? RC? The deck resolution?

    For single deck and double deck, consider only thinking in terms of 1/4 decks only. Don't sweat how many exact cards have been drawn! Stress over a few floating point values is not going to cost you much in terms of EV.

    Think of it this way: Remember that DD has 2 SD's in it. Since we are concerned about 1/4 deck resolution, split the SD into 4 parts and times by 2 for DD. We are working with 8 sections now. Your RC is now going to be the ratio of each available DD section over each SD section. That is:

    8/4 7/4 6/4 5/4 4/4 3/4 2/4 1/4...

    You get the idea.

    For the Ace Side Count: For each DD section drawn add 1 to the ASC. To compute the betting RC using the ASC: take the current ASC, times it by 2, add it to your current RC. That is your adjusted RC for HOII.

    Examples:

    8/4 sections still available, no Aces drawn. ASC is 0
    7/4 sections still available, no Aces drawn. ASC is 1
    7/4 sections still available, 2 Aces drawn. ASC is -1 or m1.

    To compute the "whole enchilada": assume a HOII RC of 3

    8/4 sections still available, no Aces drawn. ASC is 0. ATC = 3 + 0*2 / 8/4 = 3 * 4/8 = 1.5
    7/4 sections still available, no Aces drawn. ASC is 1. ATC = 3 + 1*2 / 7/4 = 5 * 4/7 = ~3
    7/4 sections still available, 2 Aces drawn. ASC is -1 or m1. ATC = 3 + (-1)*2 / 7/4 = 1 * 4/7 = ~0

    At first it seems complex. After about a few weeks of practice, you should be able to compute the Actual True Count with ease.

    Hope this helps!

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    TC = (RC + (ASC)) / (104 - 7); ASC = 2 * ((-13 * A + nA) / 13 = 2 * (-13 * 0 + 7) / 13 = 14/13

    TC = (6 + (14/13)) / ((104 - 7) / 52)

    TC = (7 + 1/13) / (97/ 52)

    TC = (85/13) / (97 / 52)

    TC = (85 / 97) * (52 / 13)

    TC = (0.8763) * 4 = 3.5052

    ================================================== ========================
    NOW: for the simple explanation:

    TC = (6 + 0*2) / (7.5/4)

    TC = 6 * 4 / 7.5 = 3.2 approx.

    Basically, you have about a 3 to 3.5 HOII TC.

    If you want to include the half extra point from the lack of Aces drawn for the first 1/8 of a deck:

    TC = (6 + .5*2) / (7.5/4)

    TC = 7 * 4 / 7/5 = 3.73

    So, about 3.5

    ================================================== =======================
    Not familiar with flooring. What do you mean by that? The TC? RC? The deck resolution?

    For single deck and double deck, consider only thinking in terms of 1/4 decks only. Don't sweat how many exact cards have been drawn! Stress over a few floating point values is not going to cost you much in terms of EV.

    Think of it this way: Remember that DD has 2 SD's in it. Since we are concerned about 1/4 deck resolution, split the SD into 4 parts and times by 2 for DD. We are working with 8 sections now. Your RC is now going to be the ratio of each available DD section over each SD section. That is:

    8/4 7/4 6/4 5/4 4/4 3/4 2/4 1/4...

    You get the idea.

    For the Ace Side Count: For each DD section drawn add 1 to the ASC. To compute the betting RC using the ASC: take the current ASC, times it by 2, add it to your current RC. That is your adjusted RC for HOII.

    Examples:

    8/4 sections still available, no Aces drawn. ASC is 0
    7/4 sections still available, no Aces drawn. ASC is 1
    7/4 sections still available, 2 Aces drawn. ASC is -1 or m1.

    To compute the "whole enchilada": assume a HOII RC of 3

    8/4 sections still available, no Aces drawn. ASC is 0. ATC = 3 + 0*2 / 8/4 = 3 * 4/8 = 1.5
    7/4 sections still available, no Aces drawn. ASC is 1. ATC = 3 + 1*2 / 7/4 = 5 * 4/7 = ~3
    7/4 sections still available, 2 Aces drawn. ASC is -1 or m1. ATC = 3 + (-1)*2 / 7/4 = 1 * 4/7 = ~0

    At first it seems complex. After about a few weeks of practice, you should be able to compute the Actual True Count with ease.

    Hope this helps!
    I know how to calculate TC. I'm just a bit confused about how many decks left after seeing 6,7,8 and 9 cards in the first round.Normally I'm just very conservative and floor everything.So I start thinking there are 1.75 decks left after seeing 8 or more cards in the first round and make some ace adjustment to my betting running count next round.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by pokerfan View Post
    I know how to calculate TC. I'm just a bit confused about how many decks left after seeing 6,7,8 and 9 cards in the first round.Normally I'm just very conservative and floor everything.So I start thinking there are 1.75 decks left after seeing 8 or more cards in the first round and make some ace adjustment to my betting running count next round.
    Forget accounting for some measly 7 or 8 cards! Only focus on 13 card chunks at a time. You only need to worry about:

    8/4
    7/4
    6/4
    ...

    you get the picture. As I stated in my previous post: Don't sweat over such precision. You will only lose a few sig figs in EV by using the 13-card chunks method. Forget accounting for every single card! Not worth it in my opinion.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    Forget accounting for some measly 7 or 8 cards! Only focus on 13 card chunks at a time. You only need to worry about:

    8/4
    7/4
    6/4
    ...

    you get the picture. As I stated in my previous post: Don't sweat over such precision. You will only lose a few sig figs in EV by using the 13-card chunks method. Forget accounting for every single card! Not worth it in my opinion.
    I got the picture for sure.Sometimes I played too aggressively and lost like crazy in those garbage PEN DD games.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by pokerfan View Post
    I got the picture for sure.Sometimes I played too aggressively and lost like crazy in those garbage PEN DD games.
    I am going to assume "playing aggressively" means over-betting, correct?

    Consider the fact that you need kelly bet. That's it. Tone it down, keep chugging along, and you should be fine.

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