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Thread: Drinking to reduce heat???

  1. #40
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    I guarantee you 100% if you pound back a bunch of beers the pit will almost immediately write you off as a sucker. Shows you what kind of customer casinos really appreciate. Addicted, Impaired, Unskilled Morons. So act like what they want.

  2. #41
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountinCanadian View Post
    Wow, in which case using halves would be even more incriminating than hi lo.

    I'll be honest, when switching to halves the scenario did play out in the back of my mind a couple times where I reached a high TC due to an excess of 5s and 7s being dealt and raised my bets, while pit/surveillance was counting using hi lo, so had a much lower count and wrote me off.

    Didn't think it would have much effect, but if anything didn't think it could hurt heat
    Don't bet exactly with the movement of the count on a hand by hand basis. Have a small handful of bet sizes (Normal, Medium, Gigantic, Tiny, and $0). And don't vary your bet from hand to hand unless there is a substantial change in the count. If the count goes from +2 to +1.5 to +2.5 just leave the same bet out there. The more data points you give the casino the quicker they can get a peg on your action.

    The pitboss (or counter catcher in AC) may be using High-Low, but if they're using a program like Bloodhound or Blackjack Survey Voice they are using the actual EOR's for cards as played to figure out the edge. In the end, if you're betting big with High Low you will be betting big with Hi-Opt or whatever. Where you can turn things on their head is to use a more simplified bet ramp, you will be overbetting somewhat sometimes and underbetting somewhat sometimes and if you craft the ramp carefully your average bet at each true count will be about what it's supposed to be and your variance won't be all that far off from what you expect but you will be much more difficult for the eye to peg.
    Last edited by bigplayer; 09-24-2018 at 04:56 PM.

  3. #42
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    I have long said- in real life, real game, the power of the counting systems is leveled. Hi Lo = Hi Opt 2 in shoes game.
    Last edited by Gramazeka; 09-24-2018 at 08:22 PM.
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  4. #43


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    I was in Cabo this past weekend and saw they had a casino with very small limits there. After an afternoon of drinking and eating at Sammy Hagar's place, I thought I would head to the PlayWin. Minimum bet of 500 pesos, max of of 1200 pesos (about $60 USD). Without too much money on me, I thought it would be interesting to play in a casino where a) everyone spoke a different language, b)chips were denominated in pesos, and c) to see the effects of alcohol on counting. Before going in, I went thru Google translator to come up with questions to specify the rules. 3-2 blackjack, dealer stands on 17, surrender actually allowed and dealer does not look at hole card to check for blackjack.

    The result? I lost track of the count on at least half the shoes. Granted, the dealer was fast but no question the alcohol slowered my reaction time, and ability to count. Fortunately, with small wagers and rules that were ok, I actually came out a small amount ahead. I've had one beer before with a good sized meal and it didn't seem to have much effect, but I don't think I would even drink one beer when playing in the future. I would be skeptical of anyone who claims they can count effectively when drunk.

  5. #44


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    Quote Originally Posted by qhdon View Post
    How do you guys reduce heat when playing?
    Look, the reality is that the best way to reduce heat is to hit and run and keep sessions short so they have less data on you and less chance to count you down. Stay unrated, play short sessions, bounce around.

    There's no real cover. When they look, they look and if they see bet correlation with the count that may be it for you. People cost themselves lots of ev with nonsense cover plays, none of which really work. Get the money.

    If you want natural cover, play during busier days/times. Give the eye/pit more to watch. Don't play too long.

    Feel free to laugh, talk, drink a beer or otherwise look like a ploppy having a good time vs a counter starting at the cards in silence. Feel free to do a boneheaded move every now and then if the pit is watching you.

    Beyond that, don't worry about it.

  6. #45


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    Don't bet exactly with the movement of the count on a hand by hand basis. Have a small handful of bet sizes (Normal, Medium, Gigantic, Tiny, and $0). And don't vary your bet from hand to hand unless there is a substantial change in the count. If the count goes from +2 to +1.5 to +2.5 just leave the same bet out there. The more data points you give the casino the quicker they can get a peg on your action.
    Also this. Can't recommend it enough and I've been using it for years after I saw bigplayer mention it. Most squares also don't vary their bets that much or have more than a few bet sizes. Most squares also tend to double progress or put 50% on top and pull 50% back. You can easily disguise action and ramps and not really give up very much. You also don't look like a robot. You don't have to be in absolute lock step with the count (dead giveaway - why make their job easier?). You'd probably be surprised what betting into a negative count can do to mess with them. Just pick a couple hands and progress into a negative count every other shoe/whatever. You lose, go back to 1. You win, "let it ride" a couple hands and pull it back. There, some really effective cover. They will nearly write you off if they see that a couple times. And it costs almost nadda.

    You also should not play marathon sessions or stay much beyond showing them your max spread once and maybe twice, then hit the door or at least take a break before another session (if you're in a place with only one casino, etc).

    Any competent counter can peg another counter in a shoe, or two at the least. Casinos aren't incompetent. You have to dirty their data a little bit, depending on lots of factors.
    Last edited by Ikthor; 11-27-2018 at 11:30 PM.

  7. #46


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikthor View Post
    Look, the reality is that the best way to reduce heat is to hit and run and keep sessions short so they have less data on you and less chance to count you down. Stay unrated, play short sessions, bounce around.

    There's no real cover. When they look, they look and if they see bet correlation with the count that may be it for you. People cost themselves lots of ev with nonsense cover plays, none of which really work. Get the money.

    If you want natural cover, play during busier days/times. Give the eye/pit more to watch. Don't play too long.

    Feel free to laugh, talk, drink a beer or otherwise look like a ploppy having a good time vs a counter starting at the cards in silence. Feel free to do a boneheaded move every now and then if the pit is watching you.

    Beyond that, don't worry about it.
    This post should be quoted every time the subject of cover plays arises.

    Only thing i would add is if the pit is watching u too closely, just leave. It's bettter than putting on a performance pretending not to count/care.

    The most cover i will use is having my starting bet be in line with my +1 TC bet (double my min) and if the count drops but i win my bet i wont reduce my bet. But ill only do that when i have an audience. And if im being watched so closely that i feel i need any more cover than that ill simply go play somewhere else.

  8. #47


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    If one feels they are being watched, why not just flat bet low and play basic strategy? And intentionally NOT count so you can look around or talk and look more like a natural ploppy? I agree why throw away money with intentionally wrong cover plays.

  9. #48


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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDownSoft21 View Post
    If one feels they are being watched, why not just flat bet low and play basic strategy? And intentionally NOT count so you can look around or talk and look more like a natural ploppy? I agree why throw away money with intentionally wrong cover plays.
    Im guessing where you play u cant be playing at the next casino within 2 minutes.
    If you have that option then it makes no sense to burn time generating zero EV and also giving them more time to watch and analyse you.

    My policy is if there is heat to just get out of there. I used to think every session was a war and every casino was a battle ground. I've learned that some places are only good for a 20 minute session.

  10. #49


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    Quote Originally Posted by angle_sh00ter View Post
    Im guessing where you play u cant be playing at the next casino within 2 minutes.
    If you have that option then it makes no sense to burn time generating zero EV and also giving them more time to watch and analyse you.

    My policy is if there is heat to just get out of there. I used to think every session was a war and every casino was a battle ground. I've learned that some places are only good for a 20 minute session.
    You are correct in where the places I play aren't especially close.

    As for the generating zero EV, I was thinking just doing it for that shoe, hoping that might throw them off, at least a bit. Then maybe taking a break and coming back to a different table a bit later. But if you strongly suspect there's heat, isn't leaving (in their minds) an admission of "guilt"?

  11. #50


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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDownSoft21 View Post
    You are correct in where the places I play aren't especially close.

    As for the generating zero EV, I was thinking just doing it for that shoe, hoping that might throw them off, at least a bit. Then maybe taking a break and coming back to a different table a bit later. But if you strongly suspect there's heat, isn't leaving (in their minds) an admission of "guilt"?
    Im not engaging in those head games with them lol. The longer i stay the more time they have to find out who i am and what im doing.

    Out of sight, out of mind.

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