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Thread: The Empiric and Fixed Geometric System of Force

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    The Empiric and Fixed Geometric System of Force

    The following post contains controversial knowledge gained over a decade of Counting and Empiric play, along with the nonmathematical study of blackjack.

    It will detail how basic strategy and counting is not only flawed but why it fails.

    If you want to do as I do, it would be wise to have ears to listen and to be curious as why I do things I do... instead of having ears only to respond with ego.

    Posts as such will be sadly ignored with a frown.

    Following the O.P. will be an overview of my system. Any further explanation will be a matter of private messaging.

    If accusations arise that my system is not capable of what I claim. I am more than willing to make you eat your words and put any doubts to the rest. All I am going to say is Im willing to put my money where my mouth is and bury any counting system you can throw at me and do it with ease...even the Gordon Count.

    If your ready...

    Then welcome...Enjoy the read. If not then move along and dont waste my time teaching others.



    According to Eucledian geometry all "things" and ideas that come from man derive from Eucledian Geometry...everything for the statistical math that counters use, which is two dimensional math...to all numerical values we have given to give description to something that was once indescribable.

    According to Eucledian geometry the conversion of blackjack into a mathematical system of prediction is why most card counters fail.

    According to Eucledian geometry when you run into a problem you can use Eucledians Method to enforce change on any given idea and turn it into something else.

    How I stumbled across it...I had an extremely small bank from my current medical condition. So I had to lower my ror in hopes that I would hit a positive e.v. Streak...Im not going to get to it just yet...first lets find out whats wrong with the way we play blackjack today. Before we can do that we have to find out what blackjack is.

    Blackjack started as an Idea. There for, it stands that it is a three dimensional game...Meaning it was formulated using Eucledian Geometry for the house to have and advantage over the player. How was that advantage conceived, Allow me to explain.

    Illusions and concepts were conceived such as...Basic Strategy along with, trying to get as close to twenty one without going over, along with Dealer stands on soft 17 and Player can double and split...were conceived to gain advantage over the player and even counter. That advantage is non existent and only comes into play when attempting to win each hand or generate more money off of the current or next....

    Okay now that we understand why it is was made lets figure out how most counters but more importantly the average player losses by accepting the use of the aforementioned tools.

    I will start with the preconceived notion of...lets say of just beating the dealer....

    If we decide to simply beat the dealer leaving bets out of "The Experiment" along with splits and double downs...naturally since there are no bets..., player using dealer Strategy of s17 while the dealer does the same.

    Common sense logic and reason along with the two dimensional tool of math dictates that the player and dealer will play even over millions of hands.

    Now lets introduce a wager into the mix playing s17 both... because blackjack pays player 2-1, 3-2, 6-2 etc....if we had enough flat bets to outlast any -standard deviation...common sense and math dictates that over millions of hands that the player although he and the dealers win/loss rate will be the same, the player will always have more money than he started with.

    We now have a game that has gone from Playing even to only +ev for the player with no chance of -ev in long run.

    Okay now we are begged to ask the question at what point does this guaranteed player +worth become negatively effected?

    The point of -e.v. in the game of blackjack or any game of chance is when the player becomes aware of certain consistency's or lack there of where either fallacies have been spread that give illusions to the wide eyed hopeful making them more expectant. They begin to see value in something and self awareness gives way to greed and excitement.

    This occurs only when the player becomes a variable in the game.

    In most cases the person would be right in their conscience and two dimensional math would validate their feelings however, after seeing these concerns and acting on them by increasing their bet or using tools provided by the casino such as double down split a players ror raises along with the negative and positive spectrum of the standard deviation etc. However.

    Flat betting and Only deviating from hit to 17 at times of discernable patterns.... The player would see a rise in the positive standard deviation and the ror would become lower and negative standard deviation would lower. One would think it would stay the same however, only in the case the player doesn't make the deviation and ignores this chance of +ev. will the negative stay the same but so would the ror and entire standard deviation.

    The only time the aforementioned expectation is voided is when... an increase in the size of your bet occurs, the house offers the ability to double down or split and you accept along with the constant use of basic strategy. And that's not all just one deviation from player h17 alters the cards not only for you but for the dealer as well. There is only one way to overcome. Many will not like it and is a matter best left to private message


    The counter is not the exception unless they realize that the only value during patterns of discernibility is when they see that doubling, splitting...or increasing their bets during anytime, other than an occasion I will get to later in the post, takes away from the value of seeming discernable patterns that has real worth by increasing ror and and the negative standard deviation.

    A counter can get lucky and play short sessions where a negative e.v. streak doesn't occur...however when it boils down to it at some point their bank will disappear and will do so even quicker than a flat betting ploppie betting table min using the dealer Hit 17 strategy strictly because of the huge size of their bets.


    Okay so what did we learn.

    Basic strategy fails in the long run due to the fact that although it may decrease player loss in some occasions...It will increase it in others when compared to h17 flat bet.

    Double downs and splits fail because they increase ror by increasing the -standard deviation...more so with bets larger than their minimum bet.

    Doubling also takes away from the players ability to get a higher hand or push with the dealer nullifying any long term advantage...increasing ror and raising the standard deviations.

    That being said....

    Is there anything that a player can do to gain the advantage over the casino that isn't counting?

    Yes there is.

    How?

    By accepting. Okay. Accepting what?

    1...By accepting the guarantees of two dimensional blackjack...one there are no guarantees unless you have an infinity bankroll. And two you will lose.

    If you cannot accept that you will lose...and why you lose...then as everyone else who has played the game... Think over the long run...

    2...The problem with a counter is they attempt to give value before seeing somethings worth. The cards Holed NO value. They may seem as if they do but they dont.

    3...A positive e.v. deck for a counter who uses basic strategy does not mean the cards are in +ev order.

    4...A deck can seem hot or cold but it is neither... its either positive e.v., negative e.v. or neutral...Whether it has 40 more cards with a counting value +1 left in the deck or 40 more cards with a value -1s in the deck. A player can win or lose regardless of what the count is in any part of the deck. (I myself do not count anymore i do not use basic strategy and I can care less if I lose. I can lose 66-90 percent of the time and still be HIGHLY OBSCENELY profitable.

    5... A counter can have more wins in a deck than losses but still lose while a flat better who has more wins than losses will win.

    6..A counter could win just by playing or counting what matters.

    7. A players bankroll and his willingness to accept losses and not chase wins along with not accepting the dealers tools of disadvantage such as double or split or increasing his average bet based on a hunch and not trying to get as close to 21 without going over is the players only chance to not just win at will but literally bankrupt the casino.

    Information I can give away...My bankroll is set up to resist negative e.v. It is setup to be highly profitable in not during positive e.v. decks but neutral as well

    My playing strategy along with my bankroll were both formulated using a combination of Empiric Play Eucledian method as well as applying the 3 and 4 degrees of freedom and execution in combination with the six degrees of separation and their accompanying Characteristics of acceptance and force along with value and worth.


    It is a new age off blackjack my friends. Get while the gettins good.
    Last edited by Norm; 09-01-2018 at 12:29 PM.

  2. #2


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    But could you boil it down to fourty words or less?

  3. #3


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    I have figured out unequivocally and irrevocably the strongest and simplest System that will ever be conceived point black period.

    I will put it up against system that has ever existed or will ever exist Gordon Count included.

  4. #4


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    Yes I can. There are only two things to learn.

  5. #5


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    What would you like to know meistro?

    Im sorry about the long explanation but im sure you know how people can get here.

    That being said it is tragically simple the fall of the cards hardly matter.

  6. #6


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    I believe that a far more worthwhile mathematical endeavour would be compiling data on varying ball scratching methods as it pertains to the regaled underground FBM ASC.

    But of course, my thoughts may be influenced by the quick and understandable jaundiced color of this thread.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by worshipful21master View Post
    <snip>If we decide to simply beat the dealer leaving bets out of "The Experiment" along with splits and double downs...naturally since there are no bets..., player using dealer Strategy of s17 while the dealer does the same.

    Common sense logic and reason along with the two dimensional tool of math dictates that the player and dealer will play even over millions of hands. <snip>
    worshipful21master,

    Your assertion that I quoted is incorrect. If the player uses the same strategy as the dealer, but is still required to play his hand before the dealer acts, then the player will be at a great disadvantage, as shown below.

    According to the Wizard of Odds (see https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/2b/), the dealer's strategy results in a bust slightly more than 28% of the time: the actual value depends on the number of decks and the dealer's action on soft 17. This means that the dealer doesn't bust and, thus, makes a hand of 17-21 the other 72% of the time.

    Now, if both the player and the dealer use the dealer's strategy, we can categorize the results and their probabilities as follows:

    1. Player doesn't bust & dealer doesn't bust: probability = 0.72*0.72 = 0.5184. Here, you are correct that neither the player nor the dealer has an advantage.

    2. Player doesn't bust & dealer busts: probability = 0.72*0.28 = 0.2016. Here, the player wins.

    3. Player busts (so dealer doesn't play out the hand): probability = 0.2800. Here, the player loses.

    So, we can see that the player will win with a probability of (0)*0.5184 + (1)*0.2016 + (-1)*0.2800 = -0.0784 = -7.84%.

    Thus, when the player uses a "mimic the dealer" strategy, he is NOT playing "even over millions of hands" (to use your phrase) but is rather playing at a disadvantage of nearly 8%.

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand

  8. #8


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    Wow you sound like a genius, I need to get my hands on your method!! Your post has such a seamless breakdown of the game with sensical, unflawed logic that has me on my knees in need of your system that is truly proven by mathematics, unlike the typical scams these so called "AP's" try to sell us on.

    This is one of my favourite revelations:

    "Doubling also takes away from the players ability to get a higher hand or push with the dealer nullifying any long term advantage...increasing ror and raising the standard deviations."

    I tip my cap to you, my friend. I hope to learn more. Way to stand up to these frauds.

  9. #9


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I am not mathematically inclined. In the least. I know nothing. I tried to explain it with math when I didn't know why I was winning deck after deck double doubled doubled. I couldn't I guess because I had wondered outside the mathematical boundries of blackjack. And that is exactly what it has ended up being.

  10. #10


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    I will not differ from my thoughts that i wondered outside of the mathematical boundaries of blackjack

    I did not say that i used mimic strategy. It was used as an example. Thank you for pointing that out dog hand. If I am doubted on the fact that I left out my playing strategy and you have confused it my aforementioned explanation I apologize.

    However if you are a troll putting something out of context for the simple tool of disinformation than I would ask any person reading this to did regard any post from the person this response is intended for.

    I can and will prove if it comes down to it in however manner necessary.

    A face to face would be preferred and a large bet on the outcome of my play compared to yours in the same amount of time with the same bankroll. Or the bet could be made solely on play being exactly what I claim.

    Hope this helps in the misunderstanding that seems to have fallen upon you.
    Last edited by worshipful21master; 08-31-2018 at 09:20 AM.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by worshipful21master View Post
    I am not mathematically inclined. In the least. I know nothing. I tried to explain it with math when I didn't know why I was winning deck after deck double doubled doubled. I couldn't I guess because I had wondered outside the mathematical boundries of blackjack. And that is exactly what it has ended up being.
    I'm sorry, not based upon math, based upon Eucledian geometry. That is the essence of true wisdom, is it not?! Statistical mathematics arises, stems straight from this locus of profound knowledge, that gives rise to all facets of intellect.

    By removing ourselves from this ultimate source of knowledge, we are crippling ourselves in pursuit of beating the game, like trying to walk around an infinitely wide wall, while failing to realize it is only 5 feet tall, and that we can simply learn (with a small amount of training if we are physically weaker) to climb this wall. Some of us would require no training!

    Why do we wear blinders, and think 2 dimensionally in a 3 dimensional game? I've always felt there was a better way. I'm glad you've broken out of the trap, and I really really hope to learn more.

  12. #12


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    If you read the post carefully and not read it to respond you would notice that it says if we...in relation to an experiment. With no bets basic strategy splits or doubles. It is no long a game of chance but a simulation where being player or dealer doesn't matter.

    So you can very Cleary tell I did not say that used mimic strategy. It was used as an example.

    Thank you for pointing that out dog hand.

    If I am doubted on the fact that I left out my playing strategy out and you have confused it my aforementioned explanation I apologize.

    However if you are a troll putting something out of context for the simple tool of disinformation than I would ask any person reading this to did regard any post from the person this response is intended for.

    I can and will prove if it comes down to it in however manner necessary.

    A face to face would be preferred and a large bet on the outcome of my play compared to yours in the same amount of time with the same bankroll. Or the bet could be made solely on play being exactly what I claim.

    Hope this helps in the misunderstanding that seems to have fallen upon you.
    Last edited by worshipful21master; 08-31-2018 at 09:22 AM.

  13. #13


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    Thank you Canadian. You response is humbling. And puts a smile on my face. If you are interested I would like to continue by private message. If the community begins to accept what I have to offer I may reconsider posting it on a public forum.

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