MGM Springfield, Ma.

[albee]

Was there recently and can confirm lower bets = CSM, 25 min, 6-deck S17 w/surrender, no mid shoe entry.

[Hsiaodi]

So
CSM - 10 min 3:2 h17
ASM - 25 min 3:2 s17

??

[paymypush]

I was there just after noon on a recent Tuesday and Wednesday. Both times there was only one $10 minimum CSM table with the rest at $15 minimums. The ASM $25 tables were not open at that time. That left the only S17 tables in the high limit room. I checked to see if there was possibly one $50 table but there wasn't. So a green chipper wanting S17 was out of luck.

I have played the $25 tables and it can be tough heatwise. It's no coincidence that this casino consolidates the players that bear watching into one small area. How convenient for them. In my opinion, if you don't provide a players card you already have two strikes against you.

[dcdcdc181818]

I was there on a Wednesday afternoon. There were quite a few $10 minimum tables, and all were 3:2. They were all s17, however (I've read that is a .2% advantage for the house). I even saw one $5 table with those rules. I didn't see if there were any other rules.

There were $25 tables with h17.

[PinkChip]

I was there on a Wednesday afternoon. There were quite a few $10 minimum tables, and all were 3:2. They were all s17, however (I've read that is a .2% advantage for the house). I even saw one $5 table with those rules. I didn't see if there were any other rules.

There were $25 tables with h17.

1.) Were the $10 min tables with CSMs or not?
2.) H17 is worth 0.2% for the house, S17 for the player.
3.) You probably mean $10 min with H17, and the $25 min tables with S17, not vice versa?

[Hsiaodi]

1.) Were the $10 min tables with CSMs or not?
2.) H17 is worth 0.2% for the house, S17 for the player.
3.) You probably mean $10 min with H17, and the $25 min tables with S17, not vice versa?

Csm for $5-10-15. H17
ASM 25. One pit NMSE s17.

[dcdcdc181818]

1.) Were the $10 min tables with CSMs or not?
2.) H17 is worth 0.2% for the house, S17 for the player.
3.) You probably mean $10 min with H17, and the $25 min tables with S17, not vice versa?

I did mean the reverse - the $10 min tables were with hitting on soft 17, and the $25 min tables were with standing on soft 17. I always get this mixed up.

I don't remember seeing any CSMs. I would avoid CSM if I saw them.

I do understand that H17 is worth 0.2% for the house. But it is a lot to play with $25 min, so it might be worth the trade off, particularly as it may let you count cards on a cheaper basis and increase your bet when it is in your favor. They were having 6-5 payoffs on the $15 tables when they first opened (and didn't have $10 or $5 tables. So this is an improvement.

[dcdcdc181818]

I really don't remember seeing the csm or asm. I park there when I have a meeting that will take some time in downtown Springfield - it is free parking open to the public - but you do have to walk through at least a small portion of the casino, and I sometimes check out the tables. I will update next time I go through.

[Hsiaodi]

Low limit csm.
ASM starts at 25.

[dcdcdc181818]

I was there Wednesday afternoon again. I did not see any $25 tables. I saw all $10 tables, and saw one $5 table. All were 3-2.

I did see asm, no csm's. HOWEVER, they would usually place the discarded cards back in the machine when they had dealt only about one deck. That's not really enough to gain an advantage on counting.

If you can tell me the specific differences, otherwise, I would appreciate it. I have a passing interest in blackjack (as I believe it can be beaten with good rules and card counting), but have only played once in 20+ years (many many years ago I would play a few times a year).

[G Man]

[QUOTE=dcdcdc181818;281900] I did see asm, no csm's. HOWEVER, they would usually place the discarded cards back in the machine when they had dealt only about one deck. That's not really enough to gain an advantage on counting. [QUOTE]

What are you talking about? They would put back the cards in the ASM after one deck is played? Why would that interfer with counting?

[ShipTheCookies]

[QUOTE=G Man;281901][QUOTE=dcdcdc181818;281900] I did see asm, no csm's. HOWEVER, they would usually place the discarded cards back in the machine when they had dealt only about one deck. That's not really enough to gain an advantage on counting.

What are you talking about? They would put back the cards in the ASM after one deck is played? Why would that interfer with counting?

While not quite the same, years ago, one place i know of had "fake" 2D hand held games. They were really 8 deck games with 6+ cut off. The shuffle machine would would just pop up 2 of the 8 decks. After the cut card came out, the machine would spit out the remaining 6 deck and the dealer would plug the played 2 decks back in to be reshuffled. And yes, the table was advertised as a "Double Deck" game.

[dcdcdc181818]

[QUOTE=G Man;281901]

I did see asm, no csm's. HOWEVER, they would usually place the discarded cards back in the machine when they had dealt only about one deck. That's not really enough to gain an advantage on counting.

What are you talking about? They would put back the cards in the ASM after one deck is played? Why would that interfer with counting?

WHAT I am talking about is that, as I understand counting cards, you keep track of the good cards (10, Jack, Queen, King, and Ace) coming out by assigning a negative one value, and keep track of the bad cards (two, three, four, five and Six) coming out by assigning a plus one value. When more bad cards come out than good, the count turns "positive". When you have a positive count of more than one, you increase your bet. But this count is "adjusted" by the number of decks remaining. So, if you have a plus 3 count,with 5 decks remaining, you have only a ".6" - not enough to increase your bet. But if you have a 10 count, with 5 decks remaining, you have a positive 2, worth increasing the bet. But, with the dealer only dealing one deck, you're not going to get many good counts - it would be unusual to have a positive 10 after one deck (it might be more likely to have a positive 10 after 3 decks of a 6 deck game, which would be a positive 3.3, which is a nice deck remaining). Further, having only one deck played, after getting a "positive" count, you lose this count as quickly as you get it, without having a real opportunity to bet more.