Is this counter trying to help or hurt me?

[Dbs6582]

I have seen people leave the table because I surrendered instead of stood swearing that not standing cost them the hand. It is pretty easy to get rid of people like this. They are in denial that they lose because they suck at BJ. They want to blame someone else for their losses. When they see someone do something they disagree with they found the blame for their losses. It clearly doesn't have to make sense since surrendering and standing use the same number of cards. I think it is funny when they sit out of high counts to mess me up when I am betting big by changing the cards when they drop a hand or hands. Some will sit out every time I bet big just to mess me up. I thank them for my usual good fortune in these situations. They are like the NASCAR fans just hoping to witness a bad wreck. If they watch long enough they usually see what they wanted to see and feel gratified. It doesn't matter if you are way ahead for the time they sat out. they don't see reality.

Three, I get what you’re saying and I agree with you. The OP said he thinks this AP might have done this to get him off the table. Why would an AP make a move like this to get other people off the table? If I’m going to make a stupid move to get people off the table, it’s going to be really stupid. I don’t do this, but if I did this, that’s what I’d do.

Also, another AP should know making a wrong play wouldn’t drive another AP off the table, so why do it?

And staying on soft 17 doesn’t make people run for the hills. It just makes people think that person doesn’t know what he’s doing.

It sounds like that AP was making a lot of stupid plays to where I would question if he was an AP.

[Dbs6582]

I play perfect basic strategy plus AP and I lost 11,000 in about 150 hours of play spreading 5-100$. There are people who don't even know bs that are doing much much better. My point being playing well doesn't guarantee good results.

I understand, and I feel bad about your bad negative variance.

But this OP was asking if an AP would purposely make a bad play, like staying on soft 17, to drive him off the table. It’s hard for me to see an AP doing that. That’s why I questioned if this guy was an AP.

[Three]

But this OP was asking if an AP would purposely make a bad play, like staying on soft 17, to drive him off the table

No the OP was asking why a known counter would do these plays.

It’s hard for me to see an AP doing that. That’s why I questioned if this guy was an AP.

The given is he is a counter. Counters make calculated bad plays for a lot of reasons. I am sure he knew it was a bad play and that assumption was part of what the OP was asking. If he succeeded in making BJG leave overtime he dropped in on BJG's positive count shoe it would be a plus EV play. I have successfully trained lots of players to never drop in on my shoe and many simply will never play at the same table as I do. They often sit and occupy space just to watch me play in hopes they get to witness me crashing and burning. While they sit there nobody else joins in those spots. I did some negative EV plays to facilitate some of this. By know those negative EV plays have more than paid for their tiny theoretical loss from helping to keep people off my table. There are usually plenty of tables open. They can easily choose another table rather than have me constantly making them lose.

[21forme]

Nobody could possibly hurt you.

[Stealth]

As in provide a cure for the dealer's 21? Perhaps you mean ANECDOTALLY.

Yep, bad spelling and automated spell check got me.......

[cc12b]

Nobody could possibly hurt you.

you are right in long term but in that round/hand/shoe you could lost and your brain records that.

[albee]

If you had a big bet out and he had something small, then I'd say he's trying to piss you off and leave. If he had his normal bet that a counter would have out, and he made the plays you describe, he's a dink that doesn't know the right play. He's not a friend or buddy, stay away from him. If he sits at your table again, bet the minimum until he raises his bet, then play a stupid play like hitting 16 against a 5. (think blackjack tournament strategy) I would just stay clear of the dick.......

[Old, but not dead]

I have played with this AP before. In the past I saw him spread with standard 20 to 1 in shoe game. I understand he had to come to my table because it is a busy weekend. And he only modestly spread to 4 to 1 when he had the advantage and won the previous hands as I would have the max bet 16x or 18x. He doesn't want surveillance to find out he is also AP if they were monitoring me.

So I lost three max bets because he played his hands differently than he usually would have. The first is that he did not double soft 18 against 5. So dealer got a 2 to make multiple card 21. The second is that he stands on soft 17 against 2. The third case is that he stands 13 against 8. On all the cases, I have split or doubled. Did he try to conserve the high cards or to get me off the table?

What is missing in the description is what the pit critters were doing. If I know there is an AP already at the table, I will not join that table. If I sit down at a table and notice intense scrutiny from the pit, I may make a few ploppy plays on min. bets while they are watching. I would only do this if it is a store I want to continue playing at, and even then it would be unlikely. At least my advertising plays are sure to be noticed while the pit is busy watching the table. A small loss of EV on a few hands can be worth it if you can get hours and hours of play later. I don't think an AP would make those plays to try and get another AP off the table. More likely he noticed pit scrutiny and made some cover plays.

[BJGenius007]

What is missing in the description is what the pit critters were doing. If I know there is an AP already at the table, I will not join that table. If I sit down at a table and notice intense scrutiny from the pit, I may make a few ploppy plays on min. bets while they are watching. I would only do this if it is a store I want to continue playing at, and even then it would be unlikely. At least my advertising plays are sure to be noticed while the pit is busy watching the table. A small loss of EV on a few hands can be worth it if you can get hours and hours of play later. I don't think an AP would make those plays to try and get another AP off the table. More likely he noticed pit scrutiny and made some cover plays.

Pit boss was not watching. You never know what surveillance team were doing.

Three has the best understanding of this situation. The big clues are that he only spread 4 to 1, not 18 to 1 as I observed him do before. Also stand on soft 17 vs 2. He wants me out while playing with a modest spread, safe and not losing money. Where is T3?

[ZeeBabar]

Pit boss was not watching. You never know what surveillance team were doing.

Three has the best understanding of this situation. The big clues are that he only spread 4 to 1, not 18 to 1 as I observed him do before. Also stand on soft 17 vs 2. He wants me out while playing with a modest spread, safe and not losing money. Where is T3?

Paranoia runs deep,
Into your heart it will creep..

[Freightman]

Paranoia runs deep,
Into your heart it will creep..

You are a poet
And don’t even know it

[Freightman]

You are a poet
And don’t even know it

Further

There once was a counter named Zee
Who gave out advice for a fee

On both pen and the spread
His advice he would shed

For the Dipshit and all who couldn’t see

[BoSox]

Further

There once was a counter named Zee
Who gave out advice for a fee

On both pen and the spread
His advice he would shed

For the Dipshit and all who couldn’t see

I concede I cannot compete with such good work.