See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 40 to 52 of 97

Thread: Count reluctant to go positive

  1. #40


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    What were you thinking! You hit the first hand and got a four. I assume you hit it again and then got an eight. That would be a 20, but instead you split the eight which really can't be split again since the four came first. Or you decided to stay on 12 and moved to the second hand, again a bad move, and then got the 8, and if that is the case why would they let you go back and play the 12 again. Nothing makes sense.
    Bogusjack, I agree with Midwest Player. Nothing you said made any sense. It defied the rules of any bj game I’ve ever played. Let’s say I’m wrong and you aren’t a troll. Okay, I’m sorry for saying that. Could you please explain what happened with the 8s? Thanks!

    And it doesn’t make sense that you played Hilo for years and still asked these basic questions. You must have read some books to be able to know Hilo. These books should have explained the questions you were asking.

  2. #41


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post

    As for me going forward, I’ll continue to try to find the best games, with the best pen. I’ll let you worry about what a casino should or should not do. I’m just going to worry about what’s in my control. I wish you the best.
    You’ve previously commented on your success at 6:5. Good luck on your future endeavours with regards to your game if choice.

  3. #42


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    You’ve previously commented on your success at 6:5. Good luck on your future endeavours with regards to your game if choice.
    Hey Frieghman, good to hear from you. I figured you’d probably enter into the fray with some meaningless comment. Thanks for wishing me success. So far I’ve done very good on the 6:5 games I’ve found.

    Btw, you’ve also commented that 6:5 can be a good game under the right conditions. Are you back peddling? Anymore, I’m having a hard knowing when you stand on things. You’ve been all over the map. Please clarify your position on 6:5. Thanks!

  4. #43


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    Hey Frieghman, good to hear from you. I figured you’d probably enter into the fray with some meaningless comment. Thanks for wishing me success. So far I’ve done very good on the 6:5 games I’ve found.

    Btw, you’ve also commented that 6:5 can be a good game under the right conditions. Are you back peddling? Anymore, I’m having a hard knowing when you stand on things. You’ve been all over the map. Please clarify your position on 6:5. Thanks!
    You should work for Trump. He needs a better spin Doctor. As everyone already knows, I said, within context of the thread in question, that 6:5 can be beaten, given Certain conditions. I also said the SCORE was lousy, further commenting that I wouldn’t want to make a living playing that game.

    But of course, you already knew that. You should clear out your neural pathways. Perhaps a good crap will assist you in that endeavor.

  5. #44


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    As for how I believe about the cut card, I think most casinos are doing it right, meaning they are maximizing revenues while protecting themselves.
    Protecting themselves from what?

    In a recent post from Sharky he wrote:

    "let me clarify...>99% of casino bj players are not counters....of the <1% that are, perhaps, 10% are successful (actually win $$), of them, perhaps, another 10% are an actual threat

    so 1/100 count, 1/1000 actually win money, and 1/10,000 are an actual threat...

    so 1 of every 10k players should use cover....obviously, sans places where any moron can get backed off (spaniard, vega$ in general)"

    Now, this was a truthful and accurate post that casinos do not understand.

    Back to you Dbs, seriously what do casinos have to worry about other than to spend a boatload of money "on being over paranoid" to save a fist full of dollars?
    Last edited by BoSox; 08-19-2018 at 01:08 AM.

  6. #45


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    "Back to you Dbs, seriously what do casinos have to worry about other than to spend a boatload of money "on being over paranoid" to save a fist full of dollars."

    Thankfully, a lot of casinos outside of Las Vegas do not think it worthwhile to pay someone $40k+ to watch BJ tables in a casino that has no more than 2-4 tables open each day (except on weekends). They seem to rely on their pit personnel and there may be someone upstairs they can call on to run a check if needed.

  7. #46


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Protecting themselves from what?

    In a recent post from Sharky he wrote:

    "let me clarify...>99% of casino bj players are not counters....of the <1% that are, perhaps, 10% are successful (actually win $$), of them, perhaps, another 10% are an actual threat

    so 1/100 count, 1/1000 actually win money, and 1/10,000 are an actual threat...

    so 1 of every 10k players should use cover....obviously, sans places where any moron can get backed off (spaniard, vega$ in general)"

    Now, this was a truthful and accurate post that casinos do not understand.

    Back to you Dbs, seriously what do casinos have to worry about other than to spend a boatload of money "on being over paranoid" to save a fist full of dollars.
    Yes Bosox, I saw this post by Sharky and was very tempted to respond but decided against it because I could tell by the way it’s worded Sharky doesn’t understand business so I knew he wouldn’t understand my reply. It’s wrong on so many levels it was hard for me to know where to start. Also I saw Freightman ask an excellent question (something like what level constitutes a threat?). And Sharky couldn’t answer it. Why? Because Sharky doesn’t understand business.

    Here’s a news flash: Anybody who is a winning player, no matter the level, is a “threat”. All companies, and this includes casinos, want all their customers to be positive EV. I know there are exceptions but for the most part this is true. When companies find negative EV customers, they try to get rid of them. I have pointed this out with an example from Amazon. They back off customers who return too many packages, even though these customers are following procedures and technically not doing anything wrong. Why? Because these customers have become negative EV. Are these customers going to bankrupt Amazon? Of course not. Are there going to eat into Amazon’s profits? Yes! And guess what? Companies like to make as much profit as possible. Some APs call this “greed”. Smart people call it being a good business. Btw, this is why businesses exists.

    I know Three also has a hard time understanding this concept. No business likes negative EV customers. This idea that there is some arbitrary “threat” level is just plain stupid. Obviously, casinos (any business for that matter) are going to spend more time and resources going after the big negative EV customers than the smaller negative EV custimers. But they will still pick off a low level negative EV customer when they know that person is extracting money from the casino. I’m a prime example. I’m a very low level player but I have been picked off by casinos several times. I’m smarter today with regard to bj and have been able to play rated at quite a few casinos now without getting picked off and I get great comps.

    I don’t expect you or some others to understand this concept but I’m sure there will be some on this site that get it. One more time for emphasis: Any player (small, medium or big) that is playing a winning game is a “threat” to a casino. Why? Because casinos are a business and they like to make as much money as possible.

  8. #47


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    Yes Bosox, I saw this post by Sharky and was very tempted to respond but decided against it because I could tell by the way it’s worded Sharky doesn’t understand business so I knew he wouldn’t understand my reply. It’s wrong on so many levels it was hard for me to know where to start. Also I saw Freightman ask an excellent question (something like what level constitutes a threat?). And Sharky couldn’t answer it. Why? Because Sharky doesn’t understand business

    Here’s a news flash: Anybody who is a winning player, no matter the level, is a “threat”. All companies, and this includes casinos, want all their customers to be positive EV. I know there are exceptions but for the most part this is true. When companies find negative EV customers, they try to get rid of them. I have pointed this out with an example from Amazon. They back off customers who return too many packages, even though these customers are following procedures and technically not doing anything wrong. Why? Because these customers have become negative EV. Are these customers going to bankrupt Amazon? Of course not. Are there going to eat into Amazon’s profits? Yes! And guess what? Companies like to make as much profit as possible. Some APs call this “greed”. Smart people call it being a good business. Btw, this is why businesses exists.

    I know Three also has a hard time understanding this concept. No business likes negative EV customers. This idea that there is some arbitrary “threat” level is just plain stupid. Obviously, casinos (any business for that matter) are going to spend more time and resources going after the big negative EV customers than the smaller negative EV custimers. But they will still pick off a low level negative EV customer when they know that person is extracting money from the casino. I’m a prime example. I’m a very low level player but I have been picked off by casinos several times. I’m smarter today with regard to bj and have been able to play rated at quite a few casinos now without getting picked off and I get great comps.

    I don’t expect you or some others to understand this concept but I’m sure there will be some on this site that get it. One more time for emphasis: Any player (small, medium or big) that is playing a winning game is a “threat” to a casino. Why? Because casinos are a business and they like to make as much money as possible.
    As per usual, you are wrong on many levels. Of course, in all fairness, some of your comments can be variable depending on semantics. That brings the issue down to judgement. Since my judgement is better than yours, that should help relieve some of your monotony.

    Sharky understands business quite well. His reluctance to commit is almost certainly based on not wanting a one size fits all approach. What needs to be quantified is - what Constitutes a winning player.

    Is DBS, the warrior destroyer of 6:5 red chip games a winning player, just because he’s made a few bucks. How about Zee with his vaunted shoe box accounting system - after all, he’s up over 40k over 4 years or something like that. What about Freightman or Tarzan, or a multitude of others. Or are we talking about guys playing successfully for mega bucks. What about the shoestring rolled guys making a few bucks until they get pummelled with negative variance.

    Every business has its leaks - plugging the small ones is a monotonous task, and not necessarily worth the time. If your a low level red chipper who has been picked off many times, then there’s something wrong with your approach. Oh, by he way, how many times have you been picked off playing 6:5?

    We all need to be wary of Mr. Contrary.

  9. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Protecting themselves from what?

    In a recent post from Sharky he wrote:

    "let me clarify...>99% of casino bj players are not counters....of the <1% that are, perhaps, 10% are successful (actually win $$), of them, perhaps, another 10% are an actual threat

    so 1/100 count, 1/1000 actually win money, and 1/10,000 are an actual threat...

    so 1 of every 10k players should use cover....obviously, sans places where any moron can get backed off (spaniard, vega$ in general)"

    Now, this was a truthful and accurate post that casinos do not understand.

    Back to you Dbs, seriously what do casinos have to worry about other than to spend a boatload of money "on being over paranoid" to save a fist full of dollars.
    Great post. What the dumber people don't realize is a business must maximize profits. For a casino game that means deep pen. the same thing that makes the game much more volatile and slightly more EV at deep pen for the AP makes the casino even more money. So 1 in 10,000 players can benefit from these rules enough to worry the casino. the other 9,999 out of 10,000 lose more money to the casino. All the casino needs to do is worry about that 1 in 10,000 high limit AP and let everyone else play to get the most out of everything. A casino is like an AP team. They have how many tables being played at once. They play through their n0 like lightning. They just need to get in the most rounds possible just like any advantage player. The casino is the ultimate advantage player because they almost always have the advantage and have an overall advantage on all action. I have ended business relationships because companies were too stupid to maximize profits and treated what was best for me and their company as something it wouldn't do because it wanted to do something else by policy that made them less money. You pay employees big bucks to be responsible enough to make you the most money possible and protect you from losing big money in the process. That is all we are talking about here. Anyone that ever actually worked in a high capacity in business or ran their own company know this fact. The dumb shit business majors and accountants that see things in a nice little box without all the unintended consequences see things another way. You listen to them and those unintended consequences will bankrupt you while the dumb shit business major or accountant save you peanuts on paper while in the real world costs you 6 or 7 figures for every dollar saved.

  10. #49


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    Yes Bosox, I saw this post by Sharky and was very tempted to respond but decided against it because I could tell by the way it’s worded Sharky doesn’t understand business so I knew he wouldn’t understand my reply. It’s wrong on so many levels it was hard for me to know where to start. Also I saw Freightman ask an excellent question (something like what level constitutes a threat?). And Sharky couldn’t answer it. Why? Because Sharky doesn’t understand business.

    Here’s a news flash: Anybody who is a winning player, no matter the level, is a “threat”. All companies, and this includes casinos, want all their customers to be positive EV. I know there are exceptions but for the most part this is true. When companies find negative EV customers, they try to get rid of them. I have pointed this out with an example from Amazon. They back off customers who return too many packages, even though these customers are following procedures and technically not doing anything wrong. Why? Because these customers have become negative EV. Are these customers going to bankrupt Amazon? Of course not. Are there going to eat into Amazon’s profits? Yes! And guess what? Companies like to make as much profit as possible. Some APs call this “greed”. Smart people call it being a good business. Btw, this is why businesses exists.

    I know Three also has a hard time understanding this concept. No business likes negative EV customers. This idea that there is some arbitrary “threat” level is just plain stupid. Obviously, casinos (any business for that matter) are going to spend more time and resources going after the big negative EV customers than the smaller negative EV custimers. But they will still pick off a low level negative EV customer when they know that person is extracting money from the casino. I’m a prime example. I’m a very low level player but I have been picked off by casinos several times. I’m smarter today with regard to bj and have been able to play rated at quite a few casinos now without getting picked off and I get great comps.

    I don’t expect you or some others to understand this concept but I’m sure there will be some on this site that get it. One more time for emphasis: Any player (small, medium or big) that is playing a winning game is a “threat” to a casino. Why? Because casinos are a business and they like to make as much money as possible.
    DBS, you perhaps do not understand but it is important for businesses to develop long term regular customers. This means allowing some to win some times. For example, a newbie counter prepares, practices and finally gets in a casino with perhaps a $1000 BR. He wins $300. Later, he goes home or to a party or tells all his buddies that he won at the local casino. That attracts a dozen of his friends to that casino. That casino has benefited from allowing a card counter to win. It has generated business.

    Most businesses offer deals, like 2 for 1 dinner entrees. Some will come eat and leave and tghat restaurant takes a loss but a lot more come, order dessert, drinks and more the restaurant makes money.

  11. #50


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Great post. What the dumber people don't realize is a business must maximize profits. For a casino game that means deep pen. the same thing that makes the game much more volatile and slightly more EV at deep pen for the AP makes the casino even more money. So 1 in 10,000 players can benefit from these rules enough to worry the casino. the other 9,999 out of 10,000 lose more money to the casino. All the casino needs to do is worry about that 1 in 10,000 high limit AP and let everyone else play to get the most out of everything. A casino is like an AP team. They have how many tables being played at once. They play through their n0 like lightning. They just need to get in the most rounds possible just like any advantage player. The casino is the ultimate advantage player because they almost always have the advantage and have an overall advantage on all action. I have ended business relationships because companies were too stupid to maximize profits and treated what was best for me and their company as something it wouldn't do because it wanted to do something else by policy that made them less money. You pay employees big bucks to be responsible enough to make you the most money possible and protect you from losing big money in the process. That is all we are talking about here. Anyone that ever actually worked in a high capacity in business or ran their own company know this fact. The dumb shit business majors and accountants that see things in a nice little box without all the unintended consequences see things another way. You listen to them and those unintended consequences will bankrupt you while the dumb shit business major or accountant save you peanuts on paper while in the real world costs you 6 or 7 figures for every dollar saved.
    Deep pen mattered when they did not have ASM's. On handshuffled games, it takes a lot of time but with ASM's, hardly any. A casino could well decide that cutting off 2 decks costs almost negligible time and EV while driving away most card counters. These are not the days where casinos were independent entities run by private families. These are major corporations that do internal research about the games they offer and they have likely figured out a point where card counters would be discouraged while at the same time the loss of revenue from a round or two would not affect their bottom line.

  12. #51


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    DBS, you perhaps do not understand but it is important for businesses to develop long term regular customers. This means allowing some to win some times. For example, a newbie counter prepares, practices and finally gets in a casino with perhaps a $1000 BR. He wins $300. Later, he goes home or to a party or tells all his buddies that he won at the local casino. That attracts a dozen of his friends to that casino. That casino has benefited from allowing a card counter to win. It has generated business.

    Most businesses offer deals, like 2 for 1 dinner entrees. Some will come eat and leave and tghat restaurant takes a loss but a lot more come, order dessert, drinks and more the restaurant makes money.
    Zee
    Nicely stated. I think you understand business better than Wary Wary Mr. Contrary.

  13. #52


    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Zee
    Nicely stated. I think you understand business better than Wary Wary Mr. Contrary.
    Thanks Freightman. A word of advice, check out if you are getting obsessed with another poster here. I have an obsessed pro myself who cannot get me off his mind. He used to post right after I did, usually attempting to ridicule me. He even spent time composing some sort of nomination for the BJ Hall of shame or something. These days he seems to have less time but still brings me up, even when I am not on a thread.

    You are well respected and admired by many, including me. Dont let that reputation get turned around. No offense.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 38
    Last Post: 09-12-2018, 08:07 PM
  2. Positive Count Frequency and Shoe Size (with apologies in advance to DS)
    By Oneoffthecount in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-10-2015, 08:16 PM
  3. panda: early positive count
    By panda in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-21-2007, 08:20 PM
  4. Dewayne: heads up multiple hands at positive count
    By Dewayne in forum Computing for Counters
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-10-2006, 07:57 AM
  5. paranoid android: positive count and running out of money
    By paranoid android in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-29-2002, 10:36 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.