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Thread: New player

  1. #1


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    New player

    Hello everyone. I have lurked around the site on and off for the last few months and would like to introduce myself and hopefully receive some advice. I'm a 100% solid basic strategy player, have been in and out of casinos for the last decade (with at least 15 trips to Vegas) and many locations in the midwest (I'm in my mid 30's). I've held Diamond status with Caesars properties on and off for the last few years (my cumulative loss with them is at least 15k in the last 5 years) but worked up most my status with video poker. After a recent trip to Vegas, I'm just sick of losing. Nearly every time I go out there I lose on average 3k or so at the tables over a weekend and am looking for an edge. I have devoured about 10 books recently including Knockout, Color of blackjack, Norm's online book, Burning the tables, Blackjack blueprint and others in an attempt to gather some info. I've been practicing the knockout count (at home) and utilizing some of the TKO strategy as outlined in Color of blackjack and feel like my skills are improving. I plan on purchasing the Verite software soon to run some simulations and continue practicing. It will be several months before I head back to Vegas, and plan on practicing an hour or two each day until then.

    I have a 10k bankroll that is fairly easy to replenish. I'm not necessarily tied down to Vegas. I have flight privileges and can travel for free so am open to exploring new areas. Without running any software, my initial plan is to play some DD with a 25-150 spread for short sessions and mostly play 6 deck spread 15-150 typical strip games. I realize my ROR is a bit high, I may tweak the spreads down a little when I run some simulations.

    Some questions I have are:
    Would it be beneficial to continue playing on my players card while counting at various properties since with any given rewards program I probably have a net loss currently? I could reduce my spreads slightly and play rated and put on a good act.
    Or since I'm new to counting, should I do everything in my power to stay undetected and play as a refusal and try and improve longevity. I'm not overly concerned about comps, but I will say they have been a nice benefit.
    Also, If a casino is a database participant, if you get backed off or banned at one property in the midwest does that transfer to say another company in Vegas that is also a database participant?

    Thanks in advance for any advice and responses. No, Bill Carson is not my real name.

  2. #2


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    Max bet of a single hand of $150 on a 10k replenishable bank is reasonable and approaches full kelly, just make sure you have the strategy down pat. I recommend when you think you are casino ready record a session of your at home play and post the video here, so that we can give you a skills test.

  3. #3


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    If in Las Vegas, use your comps and stay in a casino, give them some play but play unrated elsewhere. I have been data based on the Midwest and it has not affected me elsewhere. I believe it's because, ever since being put in the database, I have played short sessions and left with under $1k win in any single session. I play the same stakes as you, DD with $25-$150 and 6 deck with $10-$15 to 2 x $90.

  4. #4


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    billcarson

    Shades of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

    https://youtu.be/Kf4kvrUHR7E

  5. #5


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    Indeed, one of my favorite movies!

  6. #6


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    ZeeBabar, in your experience, have you been able to spread 25-150 DD in Vegas without too much heat? If I kept playing sessions under an hour or walked after a max bet shoe would that be reasonable? Also, I'm fairly young looking in my mid 30's so if I don't present my players card I regularly get carded at the tables. Should I just play rated everywhere since If I take out my ID and show the dealer the surveillance would be able to zoom in and get my info anyways if they wanted. Or if you were just starting out, would you recommend playing unrated and try and play tables without showing any ID whatsoever. If they ask, just walk away?

  7. #7


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    Yes, I do go to $150 but only at very high count (TC5+) but mostly I ramp up quickly. Also my first bet is for $50 and for subsequent shoes, I start with $25 or $50, varying it (depending on if pit is looking at table). Sometimes I start the "red" shoe with 2 hands, the blue one with one hand. I drop to one hand after a loss (of either hand or both).

    You can get away but pit awareness is important.

  8. #8
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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    You might want to get other opinions than just Zee's. Most disagree with what Zee advises.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    You might want to get other opinions than just Zee's. Most disagree with what Zee advises.
    Thanks Three, I’ll take all the info I can get. Do you have any comments or advice regarding my original posts?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by billcarson View Post
    Some questions I have are:
    Would it be beneficial to continue playing on my players card while counting at various properties since with any given rewards program I probably have a net loss currently? I could reduce my spreads slightly and play rated and put on a good act.
    Or since I'm new to counting, should I do everything in my power to stay undetected and play as a refusal and try and improve longevity. I'm not overly concerned about comps, but I will say they have been a nice benefit.
    It depends on your goals for your counting future. If you want to make real money you should probably play unrated when counting and play rated for machine play. If they want your identity bad enough they will get it. Your rated persona at machine play can generate comps while your counting is anonymous until they decide the want your identity because they have pegged you as a counter. Playing unrated will not prevent them from getting your identity but it will make it a little harder to get but not much harder. BJ doesn't generate many comps as an unskilled player and once rated a skilled player your comps fall to almost noting. As a small BR player comps may help you significantly by covering expenses but if you have a decent BR play unrated. They will assess you every time you sit down playing unrated, if you play for decent stakes, so you must make the right first impression each time. That costs a little. But after they relax you can play more optimally.
    Quote Originally Posted by billcarson View Post
    Also, If a casino is a database participant, if you get backed off or banned at one property in the midwest does that transfer to say another company in Vegas that is also a database participant?
    Yes. Data base contributor usually refers to a national database that every casino has access to. If you play rated all cards may become toast and your name mud at every property that uses the database to connect the dots. Many casinos are smart enough to make sure their competitors still welcome you so you have no reason to try to come back. If they database you coming back is the same as going to any other casino. That is no deterrent from you coming back. They should want you welcome at other casinos so you don't come to theirs or worse yet learn even stronger and harder to detect AP techniques on games they think can't be beat. Of course we know many casinos are run by idiots so you can expect many casinos to just put you in a national database and have you sneaking back rather than happily playing at their competing casinos.

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