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Thread: How to train deck estimation?

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    How to train deck estimation?

    Hello guys, I've progressed decently so far however I've hit a wall on deck estimation. I don't know how to train and I'm terrible at it. I have bought a lot of bee packs of cards and arranged them in half deck increments on the table from 0.5 to 4.5 yet I'm still not getting it right 100% . I count down 3 packs in under 1 minute, I can make all the computations related to true count conversion, betting size, whatever, yet I'm stuck at this single non mathematical skill needed.
    So, to conclude, what's the best way to train in deck estimation? Looking forward to your answers, thanks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Here are a few methods I use to practice:

    First, go to your local casino and ask them if they give away used decks. The casinos in my area will give you all of the used decks you want. They have a hole punched in them so they can't be used again in the casino but they are as good as any cards for practicing.

    Practice 1
    1. Obtain a discard tray online
    2. Take 6 decks and number them on the top in one corner from 1 to 312.
    3. Insert a cut card, guess how many cards you cut then lift and see the number cut.

    Practice 2
    1. Hold the 6 decks on the table as if the dealer was handing them to you to cut.
    2. Cut them and examine the number.
    3. You want to practice at different angles ie upright in the discard tray, laying flat on the table, angled away from you slightly etc.

    Practice 3
    1. Take a stick of some kind such as a tongue depressor etc and mark it in 1/4 deck increments for the first 2 decks and then in 1/2 or 1 deck increments for the remaining 4 decks.
    2. Put some cards in the discard tray and guess how many decks are in the discard tray.
    3. Place the marked stick beside the discard tray to check your answer.

    Practice 4
    1. Just stack some empty card boxes beside your discard tray.
    2. Put some cards in the discard tray and using the boxes as a ruler you can see how many decks are in the discard tray.

    Practice 5
    1. Take some cards, stack 1/4 of a stack together and clamp them with woodworking clamp or overlap them on the edge of a counter and stack a book on top of them so they won't move.
    2. Glue one long edge and one top edge.
    3. Do the same thing with 1/2 deck, 3/4 deck, 1 deck, 1 1/2 decks etc.
    4. Have a friend stack two or three of these packs randomly in the discard tray after adding them up.
    5. You guess how many decks there are and see if you are right.

    These are just a few methods. I am sure you can come up with others if you give it a little thought.

    I hope this helps

    Bo
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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    Put a 2 decks pack somewhere anywhere in your dinner room, 3.5 decks in your kitchen, 1.5 decks in your toilet, 4 decks in your bed room,....
    So you would get used to know how thick they look like.

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    Keep in mind that different stores use cards of different thickness.
    -At end of first shoe, dealer procedure is to load balance of cards into discard stray .......make a mental black felt line at the top of that discard tray and then estimate different deck depths.
    -collect single decks from various stores along with lowest denominator $1.00 chips, and measure how many chips occupy 1 deck - usually about 4.

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Keep in mind that different stores use cards of different thickness.
    In particular, standard cards that you buy in a drugstore are thinner. You can get used casino decks in numerous places. Usually better to get cards used in a high-end casino as they switch decks more often.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Gamblers Book Store Las Vegas has used cards from most Vegas casinos and at their online store.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

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    Thank you very much for your answers, especially Bodarc, I've been trying to figure out how to glue them together however I haven't considered... glue ) tried using scotch tape and that didn't work out.
    I'll try getting a pack of cards from the casino the next time I go there.

  8. #8
    Senior Member dharmaprija's Avatar
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    I used the glue decks at various measures method, 1/4, 1/2, etc upto 5 & it worked well. I also put sets round the house too. Both suggestions I got from this forum, thanks members!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    In particular, standard cards that you buy in a drugstore are thinner. You can get used casino decks in numerous places. Usually better to get cards used in a high-end casino as they switch decks more often.
    Don't overlook this bit of advice. When I first started, I thought that I knew what 1D looked like. I soon discovered that 1D in a casino is thicker. May not seem like much, but when playing 6D, this amounts to miscalculating by a lot! Also be advised that when all those grimy hands handle the cards all day long, they lose more of their "thinness." This is especially substantial in 6D since they may not change their cards the whole day.

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    All this seems so complicated. I just watch the end of the shoe and the dealer takes out the cards behind them cut card, inserts them in the stack. I see where the 6 decks (or the 2 decks) are on the discard tray, then calculate mentally as to whether 1 or two or whatever decks go into the discard tray.

    What are the tolerance levels. If you are off by a bit, say the RC is +8 and the decks played are 3.2 and not the 3.0, how off are you in your betting? In your playing?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    how off are you in your betting? In your playing?
    That depends on what you are playing and betting.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodarc View Post
    That depends on what you are playing and betting.
    Bodarc, I play 6 deck, $10 min (spreading from $10 to $150) and Wonging out at TC-2 after 3 decks have been played or DD games ($25-$175) play all.

    i just never practiced deck estimation and only studied how thick a deck is when the casino changes decks. I have watched them shuffle each deck and put them in discard tray as they open the table. I get an idea of where the stack is in the discard tray and then do the best to estimate.

    I wonder how how much of a difference it is if one is off by 5 cards in our estimation of each deck. What would the cost be.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Zee

    If that is all you ever intend to do and you are happy with it, I think the cost would be nil. I agree with you. Five cards won't cost you anything, but if you desire to study and try to improve your game and move to some advanced strategies, the cost could be very high in certain circumstances.
    Last edited by Bodarc; 04-18-2016 at 04:26 AM.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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