Counting system change or add side counting?

[Three]

I know one of two long term pros who will be groaning at the not so shuttle promotion of higher level counts.

If they really know their shit they know two things. I used totally neutral language so far as any count that promoted no multi-level count. I was the one that pointed out he was comfortable using RPC when the simple camp started saying he should use Hilo for pitch games. LoL

Everything I said is 100% accurate. Don't think your ploppy thought process in any way resembles what pros know. The fact is the higher the PE of the count you are adding a side count to for playing decisions the more the gain from adding the side count. This is very loosely dependent on what level count you use. It is highly related to how you weight the ace in the main count. I pointed that out. Just look at Norm's count comparison charts:

https://qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage172.htm

The PE leaders are the ace neutral counts. They are closely followed by the ace compromise counts. All the fully ace reckoned counts have anemic PEs. Notice that the level of the count has no influence on PE. Felt, a level 2 fully ace reckoned count an anemic PE of .55. RPC, the count the OP uses and a fully ace reckoned count, an anemic PE of .55. Revere APC, a level 4 fully ace reckoned count, has an anemic PE of .53. Uston SS, a fully ace reckoned level 3 count, has an anemic PE of .54. Halves is the leader for multilevel fully ace reckoned counts. It is a level 3 fully ace reckoned count but still has an anemic PE of .56. The ace compromise counts are Mentor, Unbalanced Zen 2, and Zen with decent PEs of .62, .62 and .63 respectively. The ace neutral counts start at a PE of .59 for a level 1 count and go up to PE .69.

In case you didn't notice, this thread is about going to a more effective count for pitch games or adding a side count. If you are so insecure about the strength of your count that you can't try to help the OP then don't even open the thread. I suggested no count or anything else anywhere in this thread. I simply added what is very important for him to consider before making any changes concerning adding a side count. It was only in this post that I started to go count specific, and you are the one that triggered that because of your ignorance concerning the finer points of BJ. Once again I regret bypassing the ignore post when reading your post. I only did that because this is one of the more interesting threads to be started lately. You are batting almost 1.000 on that one. Your post are really totally worthless and often damaging to new players. The pros all tell you that you are wrong when you post, just like clockwork.

[Monty]

So I'm at a crossroads in terms of what to do regarding my counting system. The way I see it there are 2 options for me going forward:

Maybe try a 3rd option and learn cutting.

[Freightman]

If they really know their shit they know two things. I used totally neutral language so far as any count that promoted no multi-level count. I was the one that pointed out he was comfortable using RPC when the simple camp started saying he should use Hilo for pitch games. LoL

Everything I said is 100% accurate. Don't think your ploppy thought process in any way resembles what pros know. The fact is the higher the PE of the count you are adding a side count to for playing decisions the more the gain from adding the side count. This is very loosely dependent on what level count you use. It is highly related to how you weight the ace in the main count. I pointed that out. Just look at Norm's count comparison charts:

https://qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage172.htm

The PE leaders are the ace neutral counts. They are closely followed by the ace compromise counts. All the fully ace reckoned counts have anemic PEs. Notice that the level of the count has no influence on PE. Felt, a level 2 fully ace reckoned count an anemic PE of .55. RPC, the count the OP uses and a fully ace reckoned count, an anemic PE of .55. Revere APC, a level 4 fully ace reckoned count, has an anemic PE of .53. Uston SS, a fully ace reckoned level 3 count, has an anemic PE of .54. Halves is the leader for multilevel fully ace reckoned counts. It is a level 3 fully ace reckoned count but still has an anemic PE of .56. The ace compromise counts are Mentor, Unbalanced Zen 2, and Zen with decent PEs of .62, .62 and .63 respectively. The ace neutral counts start at a PE of .59 for a level 1 count and go up to PE .69.

In case you didn't notice, this thread is about going to a more effective count for pitch games or adding a side count. If you are so insecure about the strength of your count that you can't try to help the OP then don't even open the thread. I suggested no count or anything else anywhere in this thread. I simply added what is very important for him to consider before making any changes concerning adding a side count. It was only in this post that I started to go count specific, and you are the one that triggered that because of your ignorance concerning the finer points of BJ. Once again I regret bypassing the ignore post when reading your post. I only did that because this is one of the more interesting threads to be started lately. You are batting almost 1.000 on that one. Your post are really totally worthless and often damaging to new players. The pros all tell you that you are wrong when you post, just like clockwork.

Of course, PE for ace reckoned counts can be tweaked significantly.

[Three]

8s and 9s are both neutral in RPC... I'm wondering if there is any merit to side counting them for the purpose of inproving playing efficiency.

Side counting counted ranks to increase playing efficiency is also an option. Usually the main count doesn't tag influential cards correctly for many important plays. Side counting allows you to weight those cards perfectly for those important plays. Plays may be important due to frequency or a low m-value that should be easily reached but the count is so poorly correlated to the play that it is not easily reached. Of course factoring in probable bet size is an important factor.

[Dbs6582]

If they really know their shit they know two things. I used totally neutral language so far as any count that promoted no multi-level count. I was the one that pointed out he was comfortable using RPC when the simple camp started saying he should use Hilo for pitch games. LoL

Everything I said is 100% accurate. Don't think your ploppy thought process in any way resembles what pros know. The fact is the higher the PE of the count you are adding a side count to for playing decisions the more the gain from adding the side count. This is very loosely dependent on what level count you use. It is highly related to how you weight the ace in the main count. I pointed that out. Just look at Norm's count comparison charts:

https://qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage172.htm

The PE leaders are the ace neutral counts. They are closely followed by the ace compromise counts. All the fully ace reckoned counts have anemic PEs. Notice that the level of the count has no influence on PE. Felt, a level 2 fully ace reckoned count an anemic PE of .55. RPC, the count the OP uses and a fully ace reckoned count, an anemic PE of .55. Revere APC, a level 4 fully ace reckoned count, has an anemic PE of .53. Uston SS, a fully ace reckoned level 3 count, has an anemic PE of .54. Halves is the leader for multilevel fully ace reckoned counts. It is a level 3 fully ace reckoned count but still has an anemic PE of .56. The ace compromise counts are Mentor, Unbalanced Zen 2, and Zen with decent PEs of .62, .62 and .63 respectively. The ace neutral counts start at a PE of .59 for a level 1 count and go up to PE .69.

In case you didn't notice, this thread is about going to a more effective count for pitch games or adding a side count. If you are so insecure about the strength of your count that you can't try to help the OP then don't even open the thread. I suggested no count or anything else anywhere in this thread. I simply added what is very important for him to consider before making any changes concerning adding a side count. It was only in this post that I started to go count specific, and you are the one that triggered that because of your ignorance concerning the finer points of BJ. Once again I regret bypassing the ignore post when reading your post. I only did that because this is one of the more interesting threads to be started lately. You are batting almost 1.000 on that one. Your post are really totally worthless and often damaging to new players. The pros all tell you that you are wrong when you post, just like clockwork.

Three, I somewhat hate to admit it but this is one of your best posts. At least for me, it hit home since I only play pitch games and have thought about moving past Hilo. Currently, as some know, I have a hybrid approach where I use Hilo but also side count aces and sometimes 7s and then make adjustments to Hilo. Also, even though I don’t use a level 2 count, I keep a mental note if I’ve seen more 4 or 5s compared to 2 and 3s and make adjustments in my betting. With all this said, I have thought about moving up to a true ace neutral count. It would probably be hi opt 1 since I think hi opt 2 will be too taxing for me based on my objectives, which is to enjoy my time while I’m in the casino but still win some money. Hilo is like riding a bicycle. I can easily carry on conservations while I’m doing it.

Btw, I wouldn’t be too hard on Zee. I’ve learned a lot from him and appreciate his honest approach to the game. We pretty much have the same goals and objectives when it comes to bj. It’s good to hear from a fellow recreational part time AP who plays rated, enjoys the casino experience, and cares about creating harmony at the table. I also use his shoe box method to keep track of my results, but for me it’s not a shoe box. I used to keep detailed records but I found this took too much time, and I really didn’t care about the detailed results anyway. For me, the important thing is to see if I’m playing a winning game so the shoebox approach has worked. That means I’ll never be able to post one of those graphs that show my progress. I keep all my gambling money in one place and haven’t touch it. It has grown nicely the last three years, when I’ve taken the game more seriously, but I’m still not even close to pro-serious.

I’m probably like Zee too in that I don’t really care about the ridicule that comes with not taking this game so seriously. My self worth doesn’t come from what some bj pro thinks. I care more about family, friends and what’s going on in my job. I also probably care more about what the ploppies and casino staff think of me in my local casinos than what some bj pro thinks of me. I’m just being honest. I love playing bj as a side hobby but it will never define me. Thanks for your help, and I mean that! It doesn’t bother me when you put me or other people down when you give advice because I’ve learned from Zee that this is just a byproduct of being a full time pro.

[Freightman]

Hmmm
Deleted in record time. Impressive.

[cc12b]

Side counting counted ranks to increase playing efficiency is also an option.

The benefit of side count/s is obvious, not only by sims but by people who have been there done that. It is up to each person's ability to do it or not. That said but I, and many who want to learn S.C would greatly appreciate to be shown the practical method/s of how to do it. Personally, I struggled to learn ASC but finally get. Now with s.c of 7 I do not know how to keep the count. Please share your experience in keeping 3 counts at same time.

[Freightman]

The benefit of side count/s is obvious, not only by sims but by people who have been there done that. It is up to each person's ability to do it or not. That said but I, and many who want to learn S.C would greatly appreciate to be shown the practical method/s of how to do it. Personally, I struggled to learn ASC but finally get. Now with s.c of 7 I do not know how to keep the count. Please share your experience in keeping 3 counts at same time.

A couple of potential ways to handle either a secondary side count, or density of a card grouping. One of course, is the now underground regaled FBM ASC. Another would be a letter count which could be manipulated to either pitch or shoe. Give it some thought.

The possibilities are actually.......endless.

[Three]

I use the alphabet for side counts. There are other methods that I won't write on the open forum. They use different mathematical "languages" to keep side counts. Once learned it is actually easier than any other method. You can use visualization as well. You have to find what works easiest for you. Just use what makes it jam in your head. Don't worry about how others do it. There are no right or wrong ways to side count. I currently use two balanced counts and simply keep two RCs in my head.

[Dbs6582]

The benefit of side count/s is obvious, not only by sims but by people who have been there done that. It is up to each person's ability to do it or not. That said but I, and many who want to learn S.C would greatly appreciate to be shown the practical method/s of how to do it. Personally, I struggled to learn ASC but finally get. Now with s.c of 7 I do not know how to keep the count. Please share your experience in keeping 3 counts at same time.

For what it’s worth, this is what I do for keeping side counts. I mostly use chips. They are very disorganized in front of me. I do this on purpose and I am constantly playing with them so surveillance would never know what I’m doing if they were watching me. I use one stack for aces and another for sevens, while I keep the Hilo count in my head. I’ve found just moving a couple chips off center on the top of a pile helps me keep track of 7s and aces. Whenever I see one of these cards, I move another chip slightly off center. I’ve read some people turn a chip to keep a side count. I tried that but I’ve found moving the chips off center works best for me. By off center, I mean the chips representing the side count aren’t totally aligned with the pile. If you aren’t a person constantly playing your chips then this probably won’t work. I’m a low level player so I’m pretty sure surveillance or the pit critters aren’t watching me anyway so I could probably be very obvious and just put chips to the side, like Ben Affleck did when he got caught counting. Btw, I’m sure the casinos were on to him anyway due to his bet spread but I thought it was funny Ben used chips to keep track of the count.

I will only do this with pitch games, mostly DD, which is mostly all I play. When I do play six and eight deck shoes, which isn’t often, I don’t try to keep any side counts. I just play Hilo straight up.

[ZeeBabar]

For HiLO players, me thinks its a waste of time. I recall Don S saying something similar,

[Dbs6582]

For HiLO players, me thinks its a waste of time. I recall Don S saying something similar,

You’re probably right, but when the dealer is slow and I get bored it gives me something to do. I’ve readily admitted it doesn’t get me much. Im not advising anybody to do it, just saying what I do sometimes.

[ZeeBabar]

You’re probably right, but when the dealer is slow and I get bored it gives me something to do. I’ve readily admitted it doesn’t get me much. Im not advising anybody to do it, just saying what I do sometimes.

When the dealer is slow and I get bored, I find better things to do...check out the hostesses, ploppies, fantasize...