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Thread: Penetration vs. Speed

  1. #1
    Senior Member dalmatian's Avatar
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    Penetration vs. Speed

    We all know what to look out for. When a dealer is giving candy penetration and also is dealing very fast. However, sometimes I am stuck with having to pick between a very fast dealer who is giving 65% pen. but dealing at the speed of light and a dealer who gives 90% but deals in slow motion. Is there a justifiable point at which shitty penetration becomes tolerable given dealer speed?

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    We all know what to look out for. When a dealer is giving candy penetration and also is dealing very fast. However, sometimes I am stuck with having to pick between a very fast dealer who is giving 65% pen. but dealing at the speed of light and a dealer who gives 90% but deals in slow motion. Is there a justifiable point at which shitty penetration becomes tolerable given dealer speed?
    https://youtu.be/N0GdQyIm7DU

    Heads up at 60 hph is intolerable and frustrating as hell. Lousy pen, 4/6 with greasy speed is far more preferable. You'll see few big counts, but lots of marginal situations. Cruising at 200 hph plus, being able to identify both marginal strength and weakness will add to your personal relief funds.

  3. #3


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    The answer is really just up to your BR and risk tolerance, the game stats/speed are pretty straight forward to calculate. you’ve already done the important part knowing there’s a lot more to game conditions then pen and able to isolate and value them appropriately.

    Personally I’m just not playing more than a 4.2-4.3/6 cut regardless of other conditions volatility of the really marginal games can be psychologically bothersome to solo players. If the speed on the pen game was too aggravating I’d just drive to a different casino or call it a day.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    4/6 pen. does still win money. Obviously there is a hph button on cvcx so I can sim this too.
    Yup. Just turn up the crank on hph. Throw in some creativity, and rewards will accrue. The play should go along with a strong bankroll.

  5. #5


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    The answer is run a sim with your real-life parameters. Sometimes unusual things can even make 6:5 playable.

  6. #6


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    You gotta run a sim for the conditions presented. There are many variables to take into account. This is something that everyone should already have done before going into a store.

    When I played, I knew what the “worst case conditions” were that I’d play. Anything that didn’t meet that criteria or better, I wouldn’t play. I didn’t worry about calculating HPH beforehand, because I could do that in the casino after I saw the conditions.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  7. #7


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    Is there a justifiable point at which shitty penetration becomes tolerable given dealer speed?
    No, deeper pentration trumps speed.Getting more +TC hands allows much higher levels of action.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  8. #8


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I face this often and usually prefer penetration but when irritation at slow speeds, ploppies side bets and losing enters, I change tables. The other dilemma is playing a slower DD game with 1-2 other players or a heads up 6 deck game with less heat.

    Since I am recreafional, slower dealers do not bother me as much as other stuff (ploppy bets with rainbow bets, poppy conversation with dealer who does not chat and deal well, smoker next to me or angry losers at table).

    Aside from heat, a harmonious table and friendly dealer makes the experience great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    No, deeper pentration trumps speed.Getting more +TC hands allows much higher levels of action.
    Yeah I'll take penetration over speed any day of the week. (That's what she...! nvm) ;-)

    But seriously, that is my preference, though I can't speak to the more specific EV differences; I just want the best shot at getting in those high counts.

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    What the fuck just happened

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    No, deeper pentration trumps speed.Getting more +TC hands allows much higher levels of action.
    +1

    As I always say, there are three important game conditions to be assessed: penetration, penetration, penetration. Give me a 6:5 single deck game with the right pen and I'll play it all day...

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
    +1

    As I always say, there are three important game conditions to be assessed: penetration, penetration, penetration. Give me a 6:5 single deck game with the right pen and I'll play it all day...
    Really? I never looked into single deck 6/5 games. Maybe I should! I suppose significant penetration and being allowed a 1-6 spread will swing advantage. Do single deck 6/5 games have less heat?

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
    +1
    As I always say, there are three important game conditions to be assessed: penetration, penetration, penetration. Give me a 6:5 single deck game with the right pen and I'll play it all day...
    One of my local store has 6/5 SD that some, yes only some, dealers deal down to around 10 cards before shuffle. Most of the times those tables are full of ploppies. Should I play it with HO2 at slow times. Any advice is greatly appreciated

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