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Thread: Strange Strategy against ASM

  1. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonDetroit View Post
    If I ever encounter a beast mode shuffler (which I am not convinced exist) that does the alleged clumping of nearly-exclusively 10s that also allows for a LL (or similar) sidebet, you better believe I'll be hitting that table hard. I'm guessing casinos wouldn't combine the two though, if they're smart (of course, a debatable point).

    But I think there is enough EV there that if I ever am even slightly suspicious, I'll be backcounting quite a few shoes (by reports here, the high TC is incredibly consistent; shouldn't take long) to try and confirm. Hmm... I wonder if I can simulate this theoretical goldmine. Actually, has anyone here simmed the alleged Beast Mode (if it were to exist) just in general?
    That is what I thought. If you read my earlier posts, you would know face card clump happened when RC is in negative 10 to negative 25 range. When RC is very positive, I never got paid playing Lucky Lady. That is because face card rich preceding face card clump.

  2. #12


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    If there is a face card rich section of the deck before an even richer face card "clump", then you should be making money and at an advantage going into the solid clump... I thought the alleged beast mode was low-card rich except for one section which was almost exclusively Xs. Which means pushing on all the 20s (from the Xs clump) and playing at a disadvantage the rest. This is how spiderman outlined it in his detailed post supported with collected data. Are you now saying that the composition actually does have a proper advantage high-card-rich section before the main clump? If so, sounds like a great shoe for standard counting to me, screw Lucky Ladies.

    It is starting to sound like, perhaps, you are assuming a table as having been using it after you have a losing session, rather than attributing it to bad luck (especially since it sounds like the composition you just described is happily beatable). Not meaning offense, just trying to be candid with where I'm at here in the interest of honesty.

    Can I ask you what are the specific, scientific steps you take to diagnose a table as using a beast mode shuffler, how much data you collect before making the conclusion, and also outline exactly what the deck composition is when the shuffle is completed? And also, in a PM to me, which casino you think uses it in a pit (and which pit, if it is consistent) with a lucky ladies bet. I'm curious to investigate myself if the location is accessible to me.

    Thanks a bunch, mate.

  3. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonDetroit View Post

    Can I ask you what are the specific, scientific steps you take to diagnose a table as using a beast mode shuffler,
    Normally in hand shuffled game, given long enough time, say two hours, I can predict who will outperform at my table, based on their skills. But in beast mode ASM, people who did opposite of Basic Strategy outperform Basic Strategy players, sometimes even outperform counters. Also be alert if most of your good doubles fail, not only you but all other players, say after two hours. For example, you saw clump of five and six with accent card two, you and your tablemates double eleven against dealer upcard five, and all of you got two, five or six. Then dealer easily made his hand. It did not happen just once or twice but all night long. I can't say I will never see this happen in hand shuffled game, but it is super rare. While ASM can easily accomplish it using the sequence and I have seen it regularly. Back to the example, a ploppy who was never taught not to split fives just split the fives, then play like the dealer, hit until making a hand. Then we saw the ploppiy wins due to small card clump.

  4. #14


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    Given a long enough time... 2 hours hahahaha!

  5. #15
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    I have never seen something like this before. Someone at my table bought in $20,000 and flat bet $1,000 a hand. His strategy is simple. If taking a hit will bust his hand, he will stand 100%. I was thinking he will lost net 20 hands in 30 minutes or less. Guess what, after three hours, his session bankroll stayed the same. There is another good Basic Strategy player who has lost $1,000 finally asked if this is his lucky day. The guy said he always plays this way for the past two years or so. He is either even or win a little. This discovery really hits me hard. Everybody at the table lost more than 60% of our hands while this guy is even at his ridiculous simple/bad? strategy. Is this the end of AP? Did someone find a simple exploit against beast mode ASM? The casino did send a lot of people to watch this guy play. He can talk to them while playing since his strategy is so simple and he is flat betting.
    https://wizardofodds.com/games/black...-BadStrategies


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  6. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Normally in hand shuffled game, given long enough time, say two hours, I can predict who will outperform at my table, based on their skills. But in beast mode ASM, people who did opposite of Basic Strategy outperform Basic Strategy players, sometimes even outperform counters. Also be alert if most of your good doubles fail, not only you but all other players, say after two hours. For example, you saw clump of five and six with accent card two, you and your tablemates double eleven against dealer upcard five, and all of you got two, five or six. Then dealer easily made his hand. It did not happen just once or twice but all night long. I can't say I will never see this happen in hand shuffled game, but it is super rare. While ASM can easily accomplish it using the sequence and I have seen it regularly. Back to the example, a ploppy who was never taught not to split fives just split the fives, then play like the dealer, hit until making a hand. Then we saw the ploppiy wins due to small card clump.
    Yeah, sorry man; it sounds like a typical day at the office combined with a selective memory. Certainly far more likely than the rampant cheating you allege, especially given the lack of hard data.

    If we admit to the statistical non-significance of massive multi-session losing streaks for players playing at an advantage, the fact that players playing badly could be winning after two hours should not only be shrugged off, but expected to be seen on a regular basis.

    I'm just not seeing cheating or a beast mode shuffle in the stuff you're describing. Get hard data, lots of it, and a description of the deck compositions that you observe that would put counters (but not others, apparently, in the decks you talk about) and there might be something to work with. But this is just a description of "what often happens at a normal blackjack table". :-/

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