How bad is El Cortez?

[Tenlavuu]

I played there for 10 hours straight from graveyard to swing, majority is heads up back in December it was my first time, all i know is doing the KO running count. And spreading 5-30. I have no indices, no insurance bet. I was just a ploppy back then, and keeping a running count. That maybe the reason i lasted long. You could say im chasing my losses, they just saw me keep on buying in. Fortunately i won a little bit on the last hour. And my first time to met a fellow counter.

After 2 months i played again for a marathon, with a different count, played for 10 hours from day to swing shift. spreading 5-30. With very little index i memorized. With insurance betting this time. I ratholed a lot, and keep buying in. Ended up ahead.

The next week, i got the my very first flat bet.

[Koz84]

I ratholed a lot

I tried this at EC, and the dealer made a comment about the 7 black chips in my pocket. I know she didn't see me, I was very discreet, I think she just knew her float very well.

[ZeeBabar]

I tried this at EC, and the dealer made a comment about the 7 black chips in my pocket. I know she didn't see me, I was very discreet, I think she just knew her float very well.

I learnt from this forum not to rathole black chips. Once they make you as a ratholer, it's worse for you.

[Three]

I tried this at EC, and the dealer made a comment about the 7 black chips in my pocket. I know she didn't see me, I was very discreet, I think she just knew her float very well.

A part of the dealers job is to know where all the black chips go. They WILL be asked where they went and are expected to know. That doesn't mean all dealers are good at their job. Many casinos will give black chips to just one player to keep enough smaller denomination chips in the chip tray. When that is the case that player is assigned all missing black chips but the dealer must call black chips out and wait for approval when they go to any other player. But it does mean the quickest way to get labeled a ratholer, and thus be assigned every unaccounted for chip from the chip tray, is to sneak black chips in your pocket. Ploppies put chips in their pocket all the time but they never sneak chips into their pocket. Being seen trying to sneak chips into your pocket or being caught with black chips the dealer knows you have but end up missing can result in your being assigned every unaccounted for chip every time you play at that casino. When that is not possible they know you ratholed and may assign all future missing chips to you every time you play at that casino. That inflates your win every time rather than deflates it. To successfully rathole you must be able to have the missing chips assigned to another player. They must assign them to someone. The Floor has to account for balancing the chip tray (designating where all missing chips went. At least $25 chips and up and definitely every black chip or higher).

[21forme]

I learnt from this forum not to rathole black chips.

Depends at what level you play. If you're at a higher limit table, with players betting black/purple, then black is the new green.

[Three]

Depends at what level you play. If you're at a higher limit table, with players betting black/purple, then black is the new green.

Just remember they have to assign those missing black chips to someone. There better be a good alternative candidate to assign the black chips to in order to see where they went. If they can't account for them a video review of the table to check for employee theft WILL be done. Employee theft is the casinos biggest fear and the primary reason for tracking the chips. Of course the video review isn't going to ignore the fact that you are counting and just look for where the black chips went. Especially when the black chips ended up being sneaked into your pocket. Sneaking chips into your pocket is a huge tell. You can get away with it most of the time but getting caught once can make your wins exaggerated from that point forth. We all know about probability. If you can get away with it 99% of the time, and you do it hundreds of times you expect to be caught somewhere in there. How often do you go south with chips while trying not to be detected? If you don't pick the times you can get away with it, how long until they do the tape review or simply know there is only one place the missing chips can be? That is in your pocket. How long do you think it will take before all missing chips are assigned to you? I was openly putting chips in my pocket playing heads up. The Floor eyed my chip stack and counted the tray. Then went immediately to his computer and entered something. We all know what it was. Fortunately the review it triggered showed me very openly putting chips in my pocket so I was fine. I usually pass a skills check anyway (After seeing the Floor enter something that was clearly about missing chips I made sure I would pass a skills check for that session), but a short term enough sampling can have me looking too much like a counter. Fortunately they use more data than that to make a decision on someone betting enough. I learned a lesson that day on picking my spots to openly put chips in my pocket. I figured it was only important for ratholing but learned my lesson that day. The same rules for needing missing chips to be assigned to someone else apply.

[Freightman]

I tried this at EC, and the dealer made a comment about the 7 black chips in my pocket. I know she didn't see me, I was very discreet, I think she just knew her float very well.

If you were heads up, and it sounds like it, then there us no point to ratholing.

[tomf23]

some dealers care more than others about calling checks plays etc.

i was there a few months ago and went 3 times.

the first time i played for about 45 mins, was down and left without issue.
the second time i played for about an hour and got heat at the end and left.
the third time it was empty (different shift than the other 2) and once they saw me betting green i had a pit boss hawking me so i left after 10 mins

i wasn't worried about being in a database or whatever bc i don't care about getting comps from this dump.

It was also funny having the cage call the pit for a 2k cashout.

[Three]

i wasn't worried about being in a database or whatever bc i don't care about getting comps from this dump.

You could end up in a national database and suffer whatever consequences come with that for your style of play.

[tomf23]

You could end up in a national database and suffer whatever consequences come with that for your style of play.

i meant i didn't use a player's card so i wasn't worried about the el cortez hurting my name anywhere.

[Three]

i meant i didn't use a player's card so i wasn't worried about the el cortez hurting my name anywhere.

In this age not using a players card doesn't automatically protect your name and can't protect your face. I won't sit the ways they can easily get your name so as to not make the use of the same more common. But your face is attached to many things. Your name is attached to many objects you are in contact with. Think broadly and don't assume anyone that has your name or face will protect it.

[ZeeBabar]

You could end up in a national database and suffer whatever consequences come with that for your style of play.

Well, my style of play does not suffer much consequence from being in a database (OSN). In the last 10 days, thanks to good variance, I won 4 of 5 sessions and $4.5k in about 12 hours of play, in tyhe very same state where I was put in the OSN. I got comped rooms for 2 nights at one casino, won also at the sister property of the casino that put me in OSN. I have comp and table play offers from MLife, CET, Tropicana, Station casinos and others even today.

Maybe at one time getting in OSN had far greater consequences but in today's world where any third rate rural casino can put you on a Database. it probably has so many people in it that no one bothers to look unless a player is playing high stakes or winning significant amounts. Since I play red and Green, max bet is under $200 and I almost never win more than $2k (I look to walk away as soon as I am up $1.3k) along with sessions under 1 hour, being on OSN is no big issue.

[Gronbog]

Well, my style of play does not suffer much consequence from being in a database (OSN). In the last 10 days, thanks to good variance, I won 4 of 5 sessions and $4.5k in about 12 hours of play, in tyhe very same state where I was put in the OSN. I got comped rooms for 2 nights at one casino, won also at the sister property of the casino that put me in OSN. I have comp and table play offers from MLife, CET, Tropicana, Station casinos and others even today.

This is simply relating your experience, as you claim and, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with posting this kind of thing.

Maybe at one time getting in OSN had far greater consequences but in today's world where any third rate rural casino can put you on a Database. it probably has so many people in it that no one bothers to look unless a player is playing high stakes or winning significant amounts. Since I play red and Green, max bet is under $200 and I almost never win more than $2k (I look to walk away as soon as I am up $1.3k) along with sessions under 1 hour, being on OSN is no big issue.

This, however is speculation on how casinos use OSN and an opinion on the overall impact of being on OSN and is the kind of post that many here are objecting to. You stated that, under the conditions you play, being on OSN is not an issue. You stated this as if it is a universal fact. Had you inserted "in my opinion", or "in my experience" somewhere, it would have been better.