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Thread: Tape Reviews

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    Tape Reviews

    I`ve always wondered, is there a certain amount in terms of a monetary win that triggers a mandatory tape review? Or is it just up to the pit to decide whether play should be reviewed? Obviously I know it will differ from store to store, and that it also will depend on how suspecting the pit and/or surv. is of you, but any kind of information on this would help because I`m pretty clueless when it comes to anything in this area. I know Cellini (I may be spelling his last name/surname wrong) released a book about this subject matter; has anyone read it and have an opinion of whether it`s worth the money? Usually I would just snap buy it as long as it had good reviews, but it`s pretty expensive for a book (I think $55.00 or so), so I don`t want to get it if it`s not going to be worth it....

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    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    Yes. Reviews are done when you hit a specific win/loss point. This amount varies by casino. The pit or surveillance can also decide at any time that you need a skills check too.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Yes. Reviews are done when you hit a specific win/loss point. This amount varies by casino. The pit or surveillance can also decide at any time that you need a skills check too.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    The review points are not written in stone, or simply by feel by certain management. If I recall correctly, my local market bounced me at these various points. Time not specified.
    -5 or 6 week run at 18k
    -after hiatus, 5 week run 22 sessions at 28k
    -cumulative 15 or 20 k over 12-18 months. Final straw was some ngative index play. Still pretty much a red chipper then.
    -ytd 50kby August end, losing 8 k over 2 months regaining by 5-6k or so over 3 -4 days in November.
    -85 k one year, 40k the next, (tolerant joint) then had a bad run and recovered. House cleaning after some out if town pillaging

    Bounced by another joint for complaint on buffet. Other dollars from previous play, but I think you get the point.

    One joint never bounced from, converted to CSM.

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    Are these mandatory reviews strictly for blackjack or for other games as well?

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    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    Some stores train dealers to signal verbally when a threshold in tolerance has been surpassed. They yell out something like "black action" or "check play". I assume that this triggers a review? They will do this to obvious ploppies too.
    Checks play is more just to alert the pit of the action so they can keep the rack accounted for and full. Many places track every large denomination chip. If you're playing with them, they need to give the table much more attention to keep up with their bookwork.

    Obviously this attention is unwanted if you're counting.

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    Last edited by Bubbles; 06-12-2018 at 11:00 AM.

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    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dw44 View Post
    Are these mandatory reviews strictly for blackjack or for other games as well?
    All the games.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    Some stores train dealers to signal verbally when a threshold in tolerance has been surpassed. They yell out something like "black action" or "check play". I assume that this triggers a review? They will do this to obvious ploppies too.
    I've also had a Freightman friendly critter ask me to reduce my bet. I had hit the upper limit of a dual ramp bet on a nice run. Her request was so she wouldn't have to "report" the spread. I complied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    Some stores train dealers to signal verbally when a threshold in tolerance has been surpassed. They yell out something like "black action" or "check play". I assume that this triggers a review? They will do this to obvious ploppies too.
    No. The primary reason is to track the black chips and to know who you want to comp and get their rating right. A side benefit can be less friendly if they choose to use the info that way. Just watch the reaction to checks play. Unsuspicious response is for Floor to come over and see what the bet is and glance at the chip tray to note how many black chips are there so they know how many you end up with. It is standard to only pay one player black chips when practical. Once that player is established black chip action should only be called when a different player is given black chips or makes a wager with a black chip. When multiple players are black chipping the Floor has no crutch to track black chips without watching. He will be a very frequent visitor or a dedicated observer when that is the case because that is the only way for him to track black chips. Of course this requires the dealer and Floor be on the same page. This is not dealer 101 procedures. It is the procedures a more experienced dealer will follow. Less experienced dealers will cal checks play every time and call the Floor over too frequently for black action. If it is busy the Floor will hate this. His pit has some big bettors in it but the game slows to crawl and he can't show the kind of hold he would like to show. As lame as it sounds the suits often get blame or credit for low hold and/or drop, or large hold and/or drop. the truth is they have very little to do with either. Now there are tolerance thresholds but I don't think the dealers are aware of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    Ahhh your right! I had this confused a little I guess. Good to know, as I had thought I was screwed at every store that a dealer yelled this out at. That's a shame, I lowered my spread a few times in response to "check play". However, I did once have a trans dealer who was hitting on me abruptly yell out aggressive spread or something like that for just doing red to green. She or he or ze then gave me 50% pen on the next shoe.
    I was in a low class Vegas shithole once, hiking my bet from $10-$30 (along time ago). Dealer yells checks play, and 2 (pant)suits immediately stood vigil.

    As far as a transgender dealer is concerned, also had one of those in Vegas. Dont know what's politically correct, but he/she was really very nice. In fact, he/she was really good assisting an elderly blind local by calling out his hand totals. I tipped him/her accirdingly. I stuck out like a sore thumb, lost a fast $200, and told everyone everyone to have a nice day.

    I should also add that this locals low class joint - there was some really minor issue involving me at the table, and the critter with the poorly fitted jacket rubbed his hand over his bald head remarking - by god, in going to make this right. I actually quite enjoyed losing the $200 in this joint.

    Also not sure, but I think you refer to a he, dressed as a she, as she.

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    Since Freighter showed that we never know what triggered a review but listing why we got backed off may be helpful. Here are mine that relate to blackjack.

    1) I won too many sessions in a row on a trip to Vegas. The sorry part is I was positive progression betting very early in my career and was counting only to increase winning hand frequency by making better playing decisions. I was using Hiopt1 and a few side counts on a pitch game. After playing constantly for a few days the suit that backed me off said I never lose and nobody is that lucky. He implied I was either cheating.

    2) Decades later I was backed off after making too big a stink over the casino attempts to cheat me. They knew I was card counting for about a year but were tolerating me. the cheating attempts were probably a signal to me I had overstayed my welcome. I should have just left. I probably still would be able to play there. Instead I made a big fuss about the dealer attempting to cheat me. When I returned they said my game was too strong for them and I couldn't play BJ anymore but could play other games in the casino. I know it was the incident.

    3) A lifetime win back off. It was a small joint and I had a long winning history. My best month was over two years prior were I won over $20K red chipping. I had developed a number of new strategies for cover that cost basically nothing and in some cases where plus EV. I upped my stakes to more than double in the next 2 years or so. The game got worse so I didn't go as often, plus my BR doubling that month and continuing to grow very steadily had me playing for much higher stakes so I didn't need the fact that I could find the lowest minus there to help boost my spread. Finally my comps dried up. Almost a year after that I was backed off. About once a year they paid big bucks to a consultant to help them make more money. That had them socialite from two extremes. Whatever was the current procedure the consultant would make the argument that it was wrong and switch back to the other extreme to justify his massive fee. I saw the cycle repeat many times and figured out what was going on. Right when the cycle was expected to hit I got backed off. The suit was real nice about it and talked to me for a while. He said they had reviewed my play a number of times over the years and knew I wasn't counting cards but I just won too regularly so they didn't care why. They weren't going to let me play BJ or any BJ variants anymore. I was welcome to play anything else. I had won about $60K over 4 or 5 years starting as a low level red chipper and ending betting table max as my top bet. In retrospect that was probably too aggressive for that little joint.

    4) The place was a true Zender model casino dealing to dealer dependent 1/4 to a 1/2 deck cut off. If they had cut off more cards I would have steadily won but the extreme pen caused extreme volatility. On trips I would oscillate between up 5 figures to down 5 figure and finish the trip at some random point in-between. Before they went to extreme pen I won steadily and didn't have a problem. The pen was very good but not extreme. I would usually win $6K to $7K on a trip by slowly winning money and rarely lose. The massive swings at extreme pen just made me stick out like a sore thumb. It was clear to me their revue was inconclusive but they acted because the volatility of my results fit what they would expect from a side counter. I had been APing a number of different games in their casino for decades. My host once told me they had 3 ways to track the return on their comp investments in gamblers and I was ahead on every one of them so I should be happy with whatever I got.

    Obviously this casino tracked things a lot closer than most casinos. It was a massive casino bigger than three big casinos combined. They said I could still play BJ but I was bet restricted to flat betting whatever the table minimum was. It was pretty funny because the review flagged my card so I hadn't been earning comps for days. They finally pulled me aside but didn't know what to say because the review wasn't conclusive. After some time some suits left and came back and eventually they just said I was flat bet restricted at table minimum. They said they didn't like the way I was betting but they couldn't accuse me of anything specific and didn't have to. The last trip when I was still earning comps I swung from up $6 or $7K to down as much several times a day. When I returned months later they had frozen my ability to earn comps but never froze my comps. After having so many suits leave and come back to find out what to say to me it was obvious that they weren't sure what I was doing but decided they didn't care. Eventually they came back and pretty much said as much. It was obvious, they decided I was a threat and shouldn't be allowed to play without deciding what made me a threat. They decided not to discontinue my play but reduced my threat level equal to whatever the table minimum was. I would have been better off leaving with one deck left on each shoe rather tan playing the extreme pen. One shoe heads up there were 4 cards left at the end of the last round. I would have received a lifetime win backoff instead but I figured I was due that in another $10K to $20K as they had recently tightened that way up. Maybe that was what they ultimately thought as well. But they had months to review my play after my last visit and never came up with a decision. I think the trigger was the massive swings that came with the change from great pen to extreme pen. I was fine when I just made money slow and steady, relatively speaking.
    Last edited by Three; 06-12-2018 at 12:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    I've also had a Freightman friendly critter ask me to reduce my bet. I had hit the upper limit of a dual ramp bet on a nice run. Her request was so she wouldn't have to "report" the spread. I complied.
    Very nice. Hopefully that critter is on your Xmas list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Very nice. Hopefully that critter is on your Xmas list.
    She's actually quite nice with a good sense of humor. This is another one of those joints where I occasionally have breakfast with another critter. Always a useful information exchange. This fellow has also been good enough to tell me to buzz off when appropriate to do so.

    It pays to develop those contacts, but if course, you need to be careful who you hook up with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    Yes, only you have to be entirely sure of it! One of my friends dated a "girl" that was transitioning to a man. However, she still looked and acted like a girl. I (totally) accidentally called him a "her" and he (the trans) went into a complete rage, trembling all over and red in the face screaming if I didn't apologize bad things were going to happen. One month later he transitioned back to a female.

    Point being there are very many people that are extremely sensitive and to be blunt complete nutjobs. Unfortunately for us they are disproportionately represented at the blackjack tables.......
    Not to be politically incorrect but if someone is seeking a sex reorientation, they probably aren't the model of mental health. LoL

    I do get your point though.

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