See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 27 to 39 of 46

Thread: Basic Strategy vs Index

  1. #27


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    and tell me when you think doubling 8 vs. 5 will be superior to splitting 4,4, vs. 5.
    I never claimed doubling 4,4 v 5 was the right play. My claim was and is only that in high counts doubling 4,4 v 6 is better than splitting.

  2. #28


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    I never claimed doubling 4,4 v 5 was the right play. My claim was and is only that in high counts doubling 4,4 v 6 is better than splitting.
    Norm doesn't provide the math for that play in his application, so I can't provide the comparison. Can you?

    Don

  3. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    In orbit around Saturn
    Posts
    897


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Norm doesn't provide the math for that play in his application, so I can't provide the comparison. Can you?
    Yes, with CVData (CVIndex)
    http://pokermenteur.free.fr/images/8vs6double.png
    http://pokermenteur.free.fr/images/44vs6split.png

    I extrapolate the crossing near +10
    Last edited by Phoebe; 06-20-2018 at 01:27 AM.

  4. #30


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe View Post
    I don't see why you say that. The two red lines appear to have exactly the same slope. And it appears pretty clear to me that, by the time the 4,4 pair would get to +10 or higher, which isn't indicated on the graph, the edge would be at least identical to the hard 8 edge, which is shown.

    While the differences, if any, are so small as to have no practical use whatsoever, what we really need to see are the graphs of the two plays we're discussing on one set of axes to see if, indeed, they cross at all, or simply continue together, as parallel lines. (Note that the slopes of the two red lines appear to be identical; i.e., each goes up one box vertically for three boxes horizontally.)

    Don

  5. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I can see that they will cross if they continue linearly. But it looks like at TC +13 to me. Ideally access to the raw data would be required. But if I had to use a graphical extrapolation I would say they cross around an increment of at least 5 TCs (about TC +13).

  6. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    What I was looking at is the splitting graph. Obviously the no split strategy doubles starting at TC +2. Therefore there is no need to put both on the same graph because they are in the splitting graph. But the no split strategy doesn't include data from results for totals of 8 that are not a pair of fours. The doubling graph contains all forms of the total of 8 but may exclude 4,4 since it should be treated separately as a pair of fours.

    Don, caught you on that one. The difference from your assuming 8 doubling would be applicable is probably insignificant but you can't make that assumption. There is no assumption in the splitting graphs because only a pair of fours are doubled when the no split changes slope at TC +2 (when the nonsplits 4,4 is doubled).

  7. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    In orbit around Saturn
    Posts
    897


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Real slopes are different. Look at vertical scale.
    And look at the 2 lines in Split. They seem to begin to converge.

  8. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    In orbit around Saturn
    Posts
    897


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    A workaround, compressing TC, so mulitiply by 2

    http://pokermenteur.free.fr/images/44vs6split-2.png

    No-split after +13.
    Bravo Three !

  9. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe View Post
    Real slopes are different. Look at vertical scale.
    Don's comments indicated that when he said slope he was looking at the change in increments on the scale not overlaying the two graphs visually.
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    (Note that the slopes of the two red lines appear to be identical; i.e., each goes up one box vertically for three boxes horizontally.)
    A box has the same incrementation of scale. That said his observation is wrong. For the red lines in each graph, look at the change in EV from TC 1.5 to 4.5 in the splitting graph compare to TC from 6.5 to 9.5 in the doubling graph. It should be obvious with the crossing points to the TCs that the slopes differ slightly.
    Last edited by Three; 06-20-2018 at 09:17 AM.

  10. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    In orbit around Saturn
    Posts
    897


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Last edited by Phoebe; 06-20-2018 at 09:28 AM.

  11. #37


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe View Post
    We were doing two different exercises. I was trying to compare two graphs of two different plays, while you were both (correctly) just looking at the split vs. no split graph, making the assumption that, in this case, no split had to mean double down (instead of hit). It probably would help if the green label were "no split (double instead)," for clarity.

    In any event, +13 it is. Knowledge of which won't buy you two hot dogs on the boardwalk for the rest of your life!! :-)

    Don

  12. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    It probably would help if the green label were "no split (double instead)," for clarity.
    Below the double index you would hit so this wouldn't be an accurate description of what the line represents despite helping make things clearer when considering this situation.

  13. #39


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Below the double index you would hit so this wouldn't be an accurate description of what the line represents despite helping make things clearer when considering this situation.
    Need three colors: red, green, and blue for hit. :-)

    Don

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The KNOCK OUT System-RAD Strategy (KOBS-K-O Basic Strategy)
    By ferenc11 in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-30-2021, 05:10 PM
  2. basic strategy
    By blackjacktim in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-05-2014, 04:46 AM
  3. 2D Basic Strategy
    By BugsySeagull in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-08-2014, 08:05 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.